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Thread: Defiler Ability Suggestion: Infectious Growth

  1. #1
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    Defiler Ability Suggestion: Infectious Growth

    So I've been playing around with the Defiler a lot and and one of the things I think it could use is an active ability to spread Foul Growth to it's party members. Here it is:

    Ability Name: Infectious Growth
    Cast Time: Instant
    Mana Cost: Same as Explosive Growth (I'm not sure what the % is)
    Cooldown: 0
    Effect: Applies 1 stack of Foul Growth to up to 5 nearby Party or Raid Members. Targets of the Cleric's links receive an additional stack (I'd suggest increasing the mana cost even higher if this second bit is implemented.)

    Having this ability would allow the Defiler to have an AoE combo, in this case Infectious Growth+Feedback, similar to its current Explosive Growth+Loathsome Restoration single target combo combo. This would allow the Defiler to more reliably AoE heal in a small group situation without being overpowered.

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    With the reduction to aoe heals this would be a bit too powerful since it would be applying an ST heal as an aoe heal. If the aoes hadn't been reduced I think it would have been good though.

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    Don't really see the need for this, you will always have a minimum of 15pts to spend in other souls, allowing access to things like Healing Flood, Healing Cataract and Geyser allow for plenty of AoE healing.

    If anything needs adding/changing about defiler right now it is the way they mitigate the damage from links, because in thier currant form they cannot handle it. Even with only 1 link on 1 tank they require another healer to baby sit them.

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    With the reduction to aoe heals this would be a bit too powerful since it would be applying an ST heal as an aoe heal. If the aoes hadn't been reduced I think it would have been good though.
    That's why it only provides one stack per cast and should have mana cost high enough that it discourages spamming constantly. To get to 3 stacks you'd have to sit there for 3 GCDs doing healing for nothing, which means in a PvP situation you'd probably ever only cast Infectuous Growth once before triggering them wiht Feedback.

    Currently, Defiler has one AoE heal, Feedback, that heals for around 40-50% of the equivalent Sentinel heal, Healing Communion. Rampant Growth helps your AoE healing a little bit and it's nice to have, but it's too dependent on RNG for it to really be relied on, and Rampant Growth also provides a whopping zero healing back to you.

    As far as the PvP ramifications are concerned, I wouldn't be surprised if they just nerfed Foul Growth's healing in PvP altogether, considering how much burst healing it puts out at 3 stacks. I also don't think that's a valid enough reason to not put in an ability like this.




    Don't really see the need for this, you will always have a minimum of 15pts to spend in other souls, allowing access to things like Healing Flood, Healing Cataract and Geyser allow for plenty of AoE healing.

    If anything needs adding/changing about defiler right now it is the way they mitigate the damage from links, because in thier currant form they cannot handle it. Even with only 1 link on 1 tank they require another healer to baby sit them.
    The whole point of what I'm trying to do is not force anyone playing Defiler to be pigeon-holed into spending 12 points in Warden if they want to provide any kind of reliable AoE healing in a group situation. The reason I said this should be limited to 5 targets is specifically so that Defiler's have a little bit more options when it comes to healing in a 5-man, but is not so good that Defiler would be the new hotness when it comes to raid healing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardPooch View Post
    That's why it only provides one stack per cast and should have mana cost high enough that it discourages spamming constantly. To get to 3 stacks you'd have to sit there for 3 GCDs doing healing for nothing, which means in a PvP situation you'd probably ever only cast Infectuous Growth once before triggering them wiht Feedback.

    Currently, Defiler has one AoE heal, Feedback, that heals for around 40-50% of the equivalent Sentinel heal, Healing Communion. Rampant Growth helps your AoE healing a little bit and it's nice to have, but it's too dependent on RNG for it to really be relied on, and Rampant Growth also provides a whopping zero healing back to you.

    As far as the PvP ramifications are concerned, I wouldn't be surprised if they just nerfed Foul Growth's healing in PvP altogether, considering how much burst healing it puts out at 3 stacks. I also don't think that's a valid enough reason to not put in an ability like this.






    The whole point of what I'm trying to do is not force anyone playing Defiler to be pigeon-holed into spending 12 points in Warden if they want to provide any kind of reliable AoE healing in a group situation. The reason I said this should be limited to 5 targets is specifically so that Defiler's have a little bit more options when it comes to healing in a 5-man, but is not so good that Defiler would be the new hotness when it comes to raid healing.
    If you only started stacking them after damage has come then it wouldn't be as OP, but the foul growths are meant to be stacked prior to damage and then "detonated" after the damage. 3 stacks of FG is meant to be the defiler's long cast big heal. With 3 full stacks of FG you should be doing more healing than a healing invocation, even when you don't count the heals from the skill that triggered the detonation. Sure you have to use 3 GCDs to build up to it, but being able to essentially cast 5 instant ultra healing invocations in 1 GCD is too much. Can reach around that right now with much luck or with 15 GCDs, but it's impractical enough that it's not OP.

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    My mistake, 5 GCDs not 15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoggoth View Post
    If you only started stacking them after damage has come then it wouldn't be as OP, but the foul growths are meant to be stacked prior to damage and then "detonated" after the damage. 3 stacks of FG is meant to be the defiler's long cast big heal. With 3 full stacks of FG you should be doing more healing than a healing invocation, even when you don't count the heals from the skill that triggered the detonation. Sure you have to use 3 GCDs to build up to it, but being able to essentially cast 5 instant ultra healing invocations in 1 GCD is too much. Can reach around that right now with much luck or with 15 GCDs, but it's impractical enough that it's not OP.
    It doesn't take 3 gcds to build up 3 stacks of Foul Growth on one target, it takes 1 using explosive growth (which had it's cooldown removed if you weren't aware), and then one more to detonate them all. Once you get Explosive Growth there is no point in hard casting Foul Growth anymore unless they raise the mana cost even higher, because as of right now it's only marginally higher than the cost of 3 Foul Growths anyway.

    Also, I don't think comparing Foul Growth to Healer's Invocation is a very good comparison. A better comparison to Sentinel heals would be Subtle Invocation, if you are hard casting Foul Growth, and Crucial Invocation, if you are casting Explosive Growth, because they are similar in mana cost and amount healed; Defiler heals for a bit less than Sentinel even if you count the heal used to trigger your stacks, because that costs another GCD with a heal that isn't as strong as a second Crucial Invocation that you could cast in the same time.

    If the main concern is that you would be healing for too much in too few global cooldowns, I just simply don't agree with you. With this skill you'd be able to get 5 party members at full stacks in 3 GCDs, requiring 4 GCDs total to then trigger the stacks and actually heal anyone. That's only one GCD less than you would use if you were a sentinel and you cast Crucial Invocation on all of your party members. However, the difference would be that more people in the Sentinel's group would stay alive in this scenario, because in the first 3 GCDs the Sentinel healed 3 people, whereas the Defiler healed no one, meaning there's a higher chance of someone getting killed.

    The way this skill would best be used would be cast it once to get one stack on all your party members and then immediately cast Feedback for some quick burst healing. You could even give this skill a 3 second cooldown to ensure that people are using it that way. With a 3 second cooldown it would take prohibitively long to build up 3 stacks on your party, but it would be short enough for you to be able to spam Infectious Growth and Feedback back to back during heavy AoE portions of a fight.

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    Explosive growth is a nice skill, but it costs so much mana that it is extremely impractical to use. (2k mana on a geared lvl 60 to cast and trigger)

    You can forget using this skill as anything other than an absolute last resort in an emergency.

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    Already corrected my mistake regarding the 15 GCDs.

    The reason HI was used as an example was because of its high healing value, I should have instead used CI as the example, or a tidal surged HI.

    You miss the point I mentioned though that FGs are meant to be cast before damage is taken. I don't mean to be rude or sound like one of the "you're doing it wrong" pricks, but if you're waiting till damage is dealt to apply FGs then you're doing it wrong. Timed right with encounter timers, you wouldn't even need to use a FG trigger, instead casting them such that the timer would expire right when it was needed (this is assuming the FG consumption thing I posted about is indeed a bug).

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    If they incorporated this idea with a long enough CD that it could not be used every time the raid took damage, I'd be behind it. 1 minute at the very least.

  11. #11
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    oops, double post

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