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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: lightning torrent?

  1. #1

    lightning torrent?

    So is lightning torrent worth using in rotation or only when you need energy

  2. #2
    I'm not completely sure Zero but I do know that it was 15% of my overall when I was using it on CD. Furthermore, LT not being usable on the move is lame and in my opinion all melee channels, LT included, should allow for movement because you know...we're melee and don't have the luxury to stand back at range

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    I'm not completely sure Zero but I do know that it was 15% of my overall when I was using it on CD. Furthermore, LT not being usable on the move is lame and in my opinion all melee channels, LT included, should allow for movement because you know...we're melee and don't have the luxury to stand back at range
    It is not a melee channel it is a ranged attack from a range based soul.... Welcome to ranged where you get to attack longer range while not moving....

  4. #4
    you do understand that you can perform all attacks with Tempest from melee right. Be gone with you because the way it's being implemented now is as a means to regenerate energy WHILE in melee. Your closed minded views bore me.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    you do understand that you can perform all attacks with Tempest from melee right. Be gone with you because the way it's being implemented now is as a means to regenerate energy WHILE in melee. Your closed minded views bore me.
    Yes I do realize it can be used from within melee range and it is not being implemented with energy in mind it is being used in that fasion, clearly if it had energy savings in mind for melee it would be usable on the move.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    we're melee and don't have the luxury to stand back at range
    You do have the luxury now with a ranged soul known as tempest...

  6. #6
    If I specced specifically into Tempest to go ranged sure. And it's not so black and white as to say if it's intention was for energy saving you could move. Is Strafe used with the intention of saving energy, is Cornered beast or Flurry used with the intention to save energy...no. Thinking that just because a soul's primary function is to attack from ranged makes it's justifiable that it's channel shouldn't allow movement is ridiculous seeing as the warriors primary means of dealing damage is from melee. Tempest is just a nice addition to give us options but I don't expect you understand or agree with this either.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    If I specced specifically into Tempest to go ranged sure. And it's not so black and white as to say if it's intention was for energy saving you could move. Is Strafe used with the intention of saving energy, is Cornered beast or Flurry used with the intention to save energy...no. Thinking that just because a soul's primary function is to attack from ranged makes it's justifiable that it's channel shouldn't allow movement is ridiculous seeing as the warriors primary means of dealing damage is from melee. Tempest is just a nice addition to give us options but I don't expect you understand or agree with this either.
    This is a total none issue. Stand still and use it or just use something else.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    If I specced specifically into Tempest to go ranged sure. And it's not so black and white as to say if it's intention was for energy saving you could move. Is Strafe used with the intention of saving energy, is Cornered beast or Flurry used with the intention to save energy...no. Thinking that just because a soul's primary function is to attack from ranged makes it's justifiable that it's channel shouldn't allow movement is ridiculous seeing as the warriors primary means of dealing damage is from melee. Tempest is just a nice addition to give us options but I don't expect you understand or agree with this either.
    Most other melee classes/souls have a negative benefit added to the energy/mana regen ability such as being snared, reduced damage, health sacrifice, as this ability has none of those negative effects which leads me to the conclusion that it was not designed for the purpose you are using it.. I would not mind if "all" classes channels where useable on the move but you could make the same argument for everyone of those just as you have for this ability..

  9. #9
    Senior Member Sharog's Avatar
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    IT is INTENDED to not be able to move while channeling lightning torrent, it is the only 6s channel that is not a DPS lose at this moment. move on.
    <Spectral Oilypics>

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    IT is INTENDED to not be able to move while channeling lightning torrent, it is the only 6s channel that is not a DPS lose at this moment. move on.
    I don't care what it's intention is because original intentions can and do change. Why you can't understand this is beyond me. For one LT is doing to much damage as is and, as you stated, if the channels are being used as an energy management resource then as MELEE you SHOULD be allowed to move while channeling it. If your concern is the damage then put in a caveat that reduces it's damage on the move. See there Sharogy....compromise, something which you badly need to learn.

  11.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #11
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    At this time it is unlikely that we will change Lightning or Storm Torrent to allow movement. If we did there is already the Talent Grounded that will reduce damage while moving. We will however examine it to see how it plays.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    IT is INTENDED to not be able to move while channeling lightning torrent, it is the only 6s channel that is not a DPS lose at this moment. move on.
    But is it a dps increase?

  13. #13
    yes /10char

  14. #14
    I'd say it's about the same zero if not 100 dps or so more. The real power in Tempest atm is the hefty passive boosts you get low in the tree that synergize extremely well with RB. So much so that I replaced Searing Strike in the rotation for Shock Pulse because it hits harder and maintains the Amped buff without having to worry about it. Enhanced Power gives a flat 10% boost to all non phys attacks for a measly 10 points spent. If you do the math, with 17 points spent in Tempest at 52, you're getting 15% str, 10% AP and Weapon Comp buff, 10% to all non phys attacks, 4% reduction to non phys dmg and 2% boost to ranged, a 10% boost to ranged attacks, and a 3% dmg increase from enhanced conductivety. I was parsing 6.3k in 51rb/17tempest with a self buffed AP of 1770. Now this wouldn't be an issue if 51rb/17paragon wasn't parsing 5.4-5.6k.

  15. #15
    it's a dps increase.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    I'd say it's about the same zero if not 100 dps or so more. The real power in Tempest atm is the hefty passive boosts you get low in the tree that synergize extremely well with RB. So much so that I replaced Searing Strike in the rotation for Shock Pulse because it hits harder and maintains the Amped buff without having to worry about it. Enhanced Power gives a flat 10% boost to all non phys attacks for a measly 10 points spent. If you do the math, with 17 points spent in Tempest at 52, you're getting 15% str, 10% AP and Weapon Comp buff, 10% to all non phys attacks, 4% reduction to non phys dmg and 2% boost to ranged, a 10% boost to ranged attacks, and a 3% dmg increase from enhanced conductivety. I was parsing 6.3k in 51rb/17tempest with a self buffed AP of 1770. Now this wouldn't be an issue if 51rb/17paragon wasn't parsing 5.4-5.6k.
    Paragon is a physical damage spec, it only makes sense that riftblade pairs better with tempest. It is slightly over the top though.

  17. #17
    That was my point . It pairs so well it's OP

  18. #18
    Senior Member Sharog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    I don't care what it's intention is because original intentions can and do change. Why you can't understand this is beyond me. For one LT is doing to much damage as is and, as you stated, if the channels are being used as an energy management resource then as MELEE you SHOULD be allowed to move while channeling it. If your concern is the damage then put in a caveat that reduces it's damage on the move. See there Sharogy....compromise, something which you badly need to learn.
    There are more builds than just 51/25 that use LT, just cuz u find it in this build doesnt "suit ur needs" is not a reason for change, besides 51/25 can be played at range for very healthy damage output where stationary LT is not an issue, which makes 51/25 the only warrior build that has no melee down time, superior damage, both melee and ranged Aoe capacity, close to non existant damage ramp up time. some drawbacks are not just needed, but Required, it can not be the best at everything.

    Secondly nerfing any tempest ability DMG at this point is counter productive, as this is mainly a Tempest ability, Tempest soul itself (51-61 pts), damage output is very average and at the bottom of the spec list. nerfing any ability damage is NOT happening.

    However a big shift of damage modifiers from its bottom tier talents to upper tier talent should be taken place.
    <Spectral Oilypics>

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    I don't care what it's intention is because original intentions can and do change. Why you can't understand this is beyond me. For one LT is doing to much damage as is and, as you stated, if the channels are being used as an energy management resource then as MELEE you SHOULD be allowed to move while channeling it. If your concern is the damage then put in a caveat that reduces it's damage on the move. See there Sharogy....compromise, something which you badly need to learn.
    Are you saying a ranged skill should change to match a melee comparable skill just because you choose to use it in melee? Then doesn't that mean that all range souls should do equal DPS to melee souls as long as they're standing in melee range, rather than the 5% less goal? Should the bolt'n'jolt clerics have been raging that bolt of judgement should have its cast time eliminated since they were in melee?

    Adapt to the skills as they are. If you're doing higher DPS than other melee specs then why complain? If you're doing less than other melee specs then your spec is probably not ideal.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    There are more builds than just 51/25 that use LT, just cuz u find it in this build doesnt "suit ur needs" is not a reason for change, besides 51/25 can be played at range for very healthy damage output where stationary LT is not an issue, which makes 51/25 the only warrior build that has no melee down time, superior damage, both melee and ranged Aoe capacity, close to non existant damage ramp up time. some drawbacks are not just needed, but Required, it can not be the best at everything.

    Secondly nerfing any tempest ability DMG at this point is counter productive, as this is mainly a Tempest ability, Tempest soul itself (51-61 pts), damage output is very average and at the bottom of the spec list. nerfing any ability damage is NOT happening.

    However a big shift of damage modifiers from its bottom tier talents to upper tier talent should be taken place.
    I don't disagree that it was over the top Sharogy, we're eye to eye on that one. I'm also in agreement that nerfing the bonuses to damage in Tempest isn't the answer as much as a retooling of their placement in the soul tree. Switching Empower from 8points in the root to the 36 point mark would be a good start, among other things. LT is still doing to much damage, for where you get it in the tree, and should be dropped in overall dps and made to be allowed to move. If it was to work like Flurry currently does that would go a long way but it could prove troublesome since it's technically a ranged ability and could prove a nightmare with coding and trying to get it to clip when you leave the targets hit box.

    My main concern is in the attempt to balance everything to be below Paragon that RB and Tempest are going to be gutted in the process. The issue with Paragon goes well beyond it's overall dps atm, it's just an undesirable soul to play because, quite frankly, it's mechanics suck. So to get people to play it it's going to have to substantially outstrip RB and Tempest on ST, leaving them uncompetative at the end of the day. Now I haven't played at lvl 60 yet but I don't see the overall dps breakdown changing all that much form 52-60 in that RW does 1/4 of the overall dps for Paragon and the closest thing to it after was IB at like 8%. This isn't advanced mechanics but poor design, especially when if you look at the overall dps breakdowns for RB they are more spread out. Spreading the damage around in Paragon as well as adding a ranged follow-up would go a long way into injecting some fluididty into the soul. Before 1.11 there were three viable dps specs for warrior with Paragon still being the best ST and 13/2 or 9/6 still being competative. At that time is was more preference that what we are seeing happen now.

    Are you saying a ranged skill should change to match a melee comparable skill just because you choose to use it in melee? Then doesn't that mean that all range souls should do equal DPS to melee souls as long as they're standing in melee range, rather than the 5% less goal? Should the bolt'n'jolt clerics have been raging that bolt of judgement should have its cast time eliminated since they were in melee?

    Adapt to the skills as they are. If you're doing higher DPS than other melee specs then why complain? If you're doing less than other melee specs then your spec is probably not ideal.
    No I'm saying that for only 16 points into Tempest that LT shouldn't be doing the dps it's currently at and should be lowered and allow for movement. If you thought I was wanting it to be as good as it is now and still allow for movement you misunderstood me and I apologize. Restructuring some talents for Tempest higher in the tree and out of reach for a 51+ RB that allowed for LT to lay down some scunion while being static is better than nerfing it outright though.

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