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Thread: Changes to Silvertip munition

  1. #1
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    Changes to Silvertip munition

    Just wanted to ask why this has been changed to 3 stacks of 3% down from 5 stacks of 3%? Kind of odd to reduce MM damage when its situated in the medium range of ranged dps and WAAAAAAAY below everything - say - warrior can do.

    - Evi

  2. #2
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    Probably because PvP.

  3. #3
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    I think they added the 6% to static shock munitions (58pt) to make up for it tho

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Eviany View Post
    Just wanted to ask why this has been changed to 3 stacks of 3% down from 5 stacks of 3%? Kind of odd to reduce MM damage when its situated in the medium range of ranged dps and WAAAAAAAY below everything - say - warrior can do.

    - Evi
    Consider changes from only within your own calling and not to others, for now (unless Marksman was top dps, which it was not)
    <Vendetta>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Consider changes from only within your own calling and not to others, for now (unless Marksman was top dps, which it was not)
    No worries. I was not mandating any change to other callings whatsoever. I would just love to understand why there is all this fiddling around with souls that weren't really good to begin with. I can understand nerfs when something gives an advantage over other callings or such - but changing silver tip munition? honestly? So we have to wait for 58 to get the bonus back?

    ... I really just don't get it

    - Evi

    P.S.: My reference to warriors was not meant as a crusage to get them changed (even though a change of some souls there is overdue) because - as you rightfully said - MM is nowhere near being a top dps spec anyway. You may therefor disregard that portion of the original posting - it was only meant as frame of reference to illustrate i don't understand why a nerf to MM was needed

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Consider changes from only within your own calling and not to others, for now (unless Marksman was top dps, which it was not)
    It is kinda relevant. MM is supposed to be the Rogue build compareable to Tempest. Now not so much.

    One has to look at souls in the context as the game as a whole. If one was to say that about cleric dps pre-MoA Clerics would have raged.

    Except for yourself of course because you are on the record saying clerics being behind on dps is fine so long as they are the prime healers .

  7. #7
    There was balance issues between pure ranger, pure MM and MM/ranger hybrid where the hybrids did significantly more dps. All the little tweaks work towards putting them towards similar dps. For example without the changes 51 MM, 24 ranger, 1 NB would have been ahead of 61 MM by a massive amount but with them they are practically even.

    There is plenty of thought behind the changes. This was not balancing against some broken warrior spec, it's balancing to allow more options for us. MM didn't lose dps, it was just moved a bit higher in the tree.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    There was balance issues between pure ranger, pure MM and MM/ranger hybrid where the hybrids did significantly more dps. All the little tweaks work towards putting them towards similar dps. For example without the changes 51 MM, 24 ranger, 1 NB would have been ahead of 61 MM by a massive amount but with them they are practically even.

    There is plenty of thought behind the changes. This was not balancing against some broken warrior spec, it's balancing to allow more options for us. MM didn't lose dps, it was just moved a bit higher in the tree.
    Oh I know but the issue is they are, according to Ailion's post in the ranger thread, supposed to be balancing around 61 AND 51 point builds. This appears to through that out and say "61 is all that matters."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Oh I know but the issue is they are, according to Ailion's post in the ranger thread, supposed to be balancing around 61 AND 51 point builds. This appears to through that out and say "61 is all that matters."
    There were two MM/RGR hybrid specs (one of which is mine) that were doing way too much damage. The main culprit for both of them was the available damage increases lower in the Rgr/MM trees making the upper points worth much less than the lower points. Without the changes that were made, a lot of the DPS gains from 51-61mm and 40ish-61 mm were much less than putting 20-40 points in Rgr, resulting in both MM and RGR being bottom heavy wrt to DPS.

    One particular mm/rgr hybrid (mine) was doing so good it was out parsing rogue melee builds by up to 1k. These changes brought the damage of the hybrids more in line with the deep mm or rgr builds and to a long way to getting the hybrid ranged builds to target. There is still however one RGR/MM hybrid build that is still parsing too high, so it is possible that their will be additional changes done to even out the damage vs point scaling some more. I don't know if he'll succeed because my rgr/mm hybrid is the boss!

    For the other souls, the hybrids are within a couple % of the pure builds. The point of balancing around the 61pt builds is it provides a stable target. There are certainly available hybrid builds that are competitive with the pure builds. Rogue is in a very very good place currently with lots and lots of options. Ailion has done an incredible job updating, balancing, and meeting DPS targets.

  10. #10
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    For the most part I agree with you. Ailion has been much more surgical in terms of his work than some of the other devs, no doubt about that. This really is my smallest concern but it bothered me a TAD because of his prior statement that the balancing was being done with BOTH 51 and 61 in mind. I always hated the idea of "it comes alive when you get to end game."

    When it comes down to it though the only thing that is really in the forefront of my mind are some quality of life issues for NB. It seems a butt ton more head ache for little to no benefit over BD in terms of ST dps and a straight loss for AE dps. This bothers me because NB was the first soul I fell in love with in beta BUT I need to worry about practicalities as much as passion when looking at what roles I am going to have.

  11. #11
    One problem with this type of nurf is that it hurts our DPS by quite a bit until with can level into the new munition. I'm also thinking we're likely going to fall behind the other callings as right now MM DPS seemed to be similar to or even a little behind other ranged DPS on live.

  12. #12
    Also, can someone confirm if the 6% is a debuff on the mob or is it on you? Unless it's on the mob this will be a large net DPS loss as well.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TroubleMagnet View Post
    Also, can someone confirm if the 6% is a debuff on the mob or is it on you? Unless it's on the mob this will be a large net DPS loss as well.
    It's a buff on you. However, this is actually a DPS gain, because it'll be multiplicative with Silver Tip Munitions as well as the passive %dps talents.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Oh I know but the issue is they are, according to Ailion's post in the ranger thread, supposed to be balancing around 61 AND 51 point builds. This appears to through that out and say "61 is all that matters."
    This change saddens me and goes against what brought alot of people to Rift the idea of true hybrids being the mainstay getting away from pure classes.

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