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Thread: Death of the casual rogue

  1. #1
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    Death of the casual rogue


    As a player aged 50+, I enjoy the casual foot loose and fancy free play style. Exploring, enjoying the graphics, questing and using my Assassin abilities to sneak up on someone else so that I can nonchalantly apply my blade to their throat.

    Occasionally this results in the misunderstanding ire of their family and friends. I must defend my honor prior to moving on.

    However, with the whimpiness of the Rogue's expansion build and inability to heal effectively, my Rogue may as well lie down and die.

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    Fear not. I too am over 50, waaay over 50, and there is hope for self healing builds for rogue. Try mixing in a Tactition. Yes the indestructible melee rogue may be memory, but open your self to change and you will be fine.

    We old people got to stick together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiley View Post

    As a player aged 50+, I enjoy the casual foot loose and fancy free play style. Exploring, enjoying the graphics, questing and using my Assassin abilities to sneak up on someone else so that I can nonchalantly apply my blade to their throat.

    Occasionally this results in the misunderstanding ire of their family and friends. I must defend my honor prior to moving on.

    However, with the whimpiness of the Rogue's expansion build and inability to heal effectively, my Rogue may as well lie down and die.
    You kill extremely fast an assassin, so unless you left out of your description rounding up 10 mobs and aoeing them down and then getting a quick 5 cp on them before they die, then you can do exactly what you want to do quite effectively as an assassin. I can't understand these posts that are complaining about survivability using the guise that they can't do whats fun for them any more, the sin/bd/rs build that aoed down mobs using rift scavenger for heals was not some sort of amazing gameplay. In fact it was quite boring, the problem is people got so used to being able to mindlessly grind 5-10 EI mobs at a time that anything else seems like blasphemy.

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    You can also be self reliant as Bard/Tactician - mine was dealing with 2- 3 mobs 3 levels higher regularly out and about doing solo questiing, without health threat, so more would challenge it.

    BTW, I also am part of the RL over 50 crowd.....and then some.

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    Geezers!!! The game is over run with us Geezers. Hello pot, this is the kettle, you're black. safe to say OP you are neither alone, nor have anything to fear with your rogue. you can still be sneaky and kill lots o mobs. just have to adjust your build. One sec, "HEY YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN" where was I? Oh yes when Kennedy was president we never had any... oh wait, not where I was, Now I remember, rogue will be fine. Worry not my aged friend.

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    Sounds like we need to form our own support group.

    I would sure love to get examples of your builds once the expansion goes live.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    he does have some valid points.. because the changes to rogue have already taken place in 1.11.. they are really bad for soloing content without that rift scavenger, and without the few points to spend in tactician yet, it leaves them wanting. Sure, put a few in bard right? that is for active healing.. and takes many more points in it than desired to obtain HoT's and on demand healing other than using cadence.. which is not ideal for solo grinding stuff, since its st only with no aoe component to it yet (the other reason I want Multiple oscillations to be brought down in the Bard tree)

    until tactician.. rogue is pretty bad at soloing after 1.11 we could run a mid-high bard for it.. but also spend an extra 20 minutes grinding down the same set of mobs...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    h because the changes to rogue have already taken place in 1.11.. they are really bad for soloing content without that rift scavenger,.
    Bard, Marksman, Assassin are perfectly fine solo

    i leveled 50-56 as marksman (ok was avoiding grouppulls, but worked fine

    next i tried bard, and man, that cadence hits like a swiftshot (combine Bard with Marksman and Nightblade in 1.11 and with Tactician in Beta).... was able to do all pulls, even 4-5 without a problem, way faster than marksman, even with lower spike dps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    he does have some valid points.. because the changes to rogue have already taken place in 1.11.. they are really bad for soloing content without that rift scavenger, and without the few points to spend in tactician yet, it leaves them wanting. Sure, put a few in bard right? that is for active healing.. and takes many more points in it than desired to obtain HoT's and on demand healing other than using cadence.. which is not ideal for solo grinding stuff, since its st only with no aoe component to it yet (the other reason I want Multiple oscillations to be brought down in the Bard tree)

    until tactician.. rogue is pretty bad at soloing after 1.11 we could run a mid-high bard for it.. but also spend an extra 20 minutes grinding down the same set of mobs...
    Thanks for understanding my concern. I like the abilities of the assassin. Once you have the points spent in that, there's not a lot left over and no real healing ability to rely on. We really need burst rather than trickle healing.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodcat View Post
    Bard, Marksman, Assassin are perfectly fine solo

    i leveled 50-56 as marksman (ok was avoiding grouppulls, but worked fine

    next i tried bard, and man, that cadence hits like a swiftshot (combine Bard with Marksman and Nightblade in 1.11 and with Tactician in Beta).... was able to do all pulls, even 4-5 without a problem, way faster than marksman, even with lower spike dps.
    we are talking about the game currently on live, not beta.. and yes.. if for some insane reason you did not pick up the ~8 points in tact for massive self healing ability, doing bard+ enough in mm for sniper training will work.. but not even 1/2 as well..

    4-5 mobs .. a pet does that w/o issues... His concern is that without scavenger, as a melee styled rogue solo grinding will not be fun, or even doable, and his concerns are justly right. with sub soul points spending its impossible to get a heal from bard that would be helpful.. the most it may do is increase how much leaching poison heals for, something that rs would also add on top of mitigation. Other than that.. people are forced into a primarily Bard-Heavy soul with sub points into their desired style, seldom actually using those other soul abilities unless it's and aoe cp builder.

    atm in 1.11 Deep Bard is the only way to stay alive on large pulls of mobs (talking 10+ which is less than any cleric/mage can pull and even warrior.) for SL you could spec almost anything you wanted to, as long as you sub enough points in tactician for the self healing engine and the 2 cores.(one does aoe dps, the other does healing.)

    I even tried a few chronicles(fully ID geared) as a BD (their dmg and ease of play has really improved) with leaching (this gives me constant small heals and a HoT) and actually found bosses killing me (unlike the old Solosin build of sin/bd/rs, which handled large group mobs and chronicle bosses marvelously) and pulling more than 2 groups of mobs put the rogue at risk. I tried several other builds.. with survival, healing, and aoe as a focus, all found to be lacking.

    The point is.. for solo mass mob grinding like every other class is capable of doing, rogue is inept until it gets it's tactician. (I am talking about pulling as much as possible and aoe them all down, while chain pulling more, with no down time, and until DEEP into the bard tree bard lacks aoe with the exception of the finisher CoF, which takes takes 2-3 times as long as it should with a rogue (not a bard.. this is far better than bard used to be).

    imo.. we need some slight improvements to minor self healing in the souls w/o having to always sub tactician, or go main bard, we also need Bard's Multiple Oscillation to be brought down the tree a bit, perhaps 32 points in, or less. Having to wait until almost level capped for a 3 target aoe on cadence... kinda sounds crazy.. as at level 60 the focus if the bard will be in st boss fights, I mean.. nobody is picking bard for it's ability to aoe, that's for certain.

    btw.. if you are main barding at all in 1.11, in raid , subbing nb at all (5 points at the most, because anything else would be geared toward dps not healing) what yopu get is a total of 15% weapon dmg and 10% ap, while 5 points into rs only gives 12.5% weapon dmg, you still get 10% ap (which is all that counts toward bard healing) on top of 7.5% endurance, 10% armor, and 12.5% to all resists.., IMO.. for raiding take the 5 in rs still, for the ap and the surviviability. 5 in NB grants only 2.5% more weapon dps at the loss of all those other stats. Any other soul combo from 51/10mm/5rs will usually net less healing, less dmg, and far less survivability.

    Were it possible to give up on taking a full 51 point bard to raid for the VoJ, then yes.. a 18 point or so mm would be fantastic (goes the same for subbing mm with tact main).

    For bard healing in SL though, in raid, you will do a 61brd/15tact.., unless you hate your guild enough to not want to heal your best or provide all the buffing you can.

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