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Thread: A suggestion for PVP

  1. #1
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    A suggestion for PVP

    I've recently come back to Rift to experience Storm Legion. After about two weeks of PVPing, I see that the PVP landscape is still having the same problems it was before (that prompted my leaving about a year ago).

    PVE in this game has such a nice progression, each tier requires that you have at least some of the gear and experience from the previous tier. People can't ding 50 and step into ID, and yet there is a very clear and gradual path to work your way up.

    PVP seems to have a progression wall. You ding 50 and get placed into warfronts with people who are fulled geared with only "Ascended Courage" to aid you. This seems like a band-aid that has gone on way too long (and doesnt work). With only Ascended Courage against a fully geared player and you have no chance, not even a little. And quite honestly, new 50s SHOULDNT have a chance against fully geared players. And yet, neither new nor old player has anywhere else to go. The new player will spend hours playing with very few kills to show for it, and thus the 100k+ item costs seem further and further away from obtainable. Because of this I can't understand why any new player would come to Rift looking for PVP and stay through the 50 (now 80) rank grind.

    I understand that things will be in flux after SL is released, but with the current system seemingly being extended into SL, we'll be right back in the same place in no time.

    Please....

    1) Provide a "ranked warfront" vs "pick up warfronts", where the favor and prestige rewards are doubled in the former but there is no Ascended Courage. Then in the "pick up warfronts" put a much more powerful form of Ascended Courage. Give people some valor and some vengence that actually puts them close to the top tier players. 1000 Valor doesn't even scratch the surface. Give them a couple hundred vengence and 1500 or so valor. You could pick a certain warfront that was "ranked" for each week, and let people queue for everything as we do now. This would give hard-cores a place to go, because they would likely only queue for the "ranked" warfront whatever it was, and they would be getting the most reward for picking the hardest scenario. And it would give casuals a place to go, because they would actually have a chance to contribute in the pick-up matches (albeit they would acquire gear at a slightly slower rate).

    Or...

    2) Enforce rank brackets, r0-20, r20-40, r40+ etc. I realize Trion probably doesn't want to do this because there might not be enough people in each bracket, putting queue times through the roof. I would much rather have a long queue and actually get a few kills, as opposed to the current system.

  2. #2
    Hi.

    Dying is part PVP journey to be a king , same as in PVE, a lot wiping before boss is down. Yes, it's not casual friendly but can we say ID is casual friendly?, no it's not.

    We need more PVP player's to make current ranking system to work.. same as PVE, we can clear DH a very fast even whit casual players but fact is, no one can do it alone.

    There is no easy answer for this, maybe current ranking system match maker need wait a bit longer and it will work A LOT better if it is base on lifetime favor.

  3. #3
    Basically match maker simply need form teams one from TOP lifetime favor earned and one from bottom lifetime favor earned and I'm kinda sure now teams are much more even than never before

  4. #4
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    ranked warfronts are in already. Perhaps trion should really enforce it despite the crying that you will wait hours for a wf to pop ...

    but what then? one side has still to lose, what to cry about then? whose fault will it be you lose if not those invincible rank 50s...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Breward View Post
    Basically match maker simply need form teams one from TOP lifetime favor earned and one from bottom lifetime favor earned and I'm kinda sure now teams are much more even than never before
    Can't edit.... anyway and Trion must make it sure those two teams never go against each others.

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    the thing is:

    dont EXCLUDE proplayers from gaming but give them an ALTERNATIVE to play AGAINST EACH OTHER.

    Aka: As i said from beta 1: we need 5vs5 Warfronts ONLY PREMADES can queue.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by antigonos View Post
    one side has still to lose, what to cry about then? whose fault will it be you lose if not those invincible rank 50s...
    Point is do teams more even, it is better if mach end 500-480 than 500-8.

    Let's say there is 20 players WF queues:


    1. player have 9004545 lifetime favor earned
    2. player have 9523233 lifetime favor earned
    3. player have 9035553 lifetime favor earned
    4. player have 9035685 lifetime favor earned
    5. player have 9009987 lifetime favor earned
    6. player have 9044678 lifetime favor earned
    7. player have 9004447 lifetime favor earned
    8. player have 9003685 lifetime favor earned
    9. player have 9000345 lifetime favor earned
    10. player have 887000 lifetime favor earned
    11. player have 5000 lifetime favor earned
    12. player have 6000 lifetime favor earned
    13. player have 1006 lifetime favor earned
    14. player have 1100 lifetime favor earned
    15. player have 8800 lifetime favor earned
    16. player have 7005 lifetime favor earned
    17. player have 8000 lifetime favor earned
    18. player have 5555 lifetime favor earned
    19. player have 2500 lifetime favor earned
    20. player have 5500 lifetime favor earned

    Now mach maker need form teams 5 vs 5 player 1-10 and different WF 5 vs 5 players 11-20

    If system work like that, it will be 100% sure teams are more even than mix player 1-20.

  8. #8
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    you sure?

    player 20 is a veteran with third twink playing. player 1 is a noob got all his favor with afking in conquest.

    so player 20 is matched with the other veterans cause your system thinks he is a bad or new player. player 1 is matched with the other noobs. outcome of wf 500:000

    ...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breward View Post
    Hi.

    Dying is part PVP journey to be a king , same as in PVE, a lot wiping before boss is down. Yes, it's not casual friendly but can we say ID is casual friendly?, no it's not.

    We need more PVP player's to make current ranking system to work.. same as PVE, we can clear DH a very fast even whit casual players but fact is, no one can do it alone.

    There is no easy answer for this, maybe current ranking system match maker need wait a bit longer and it will work A LOT better if it is base on lifetime favor.
    It has less to do with constant dying, and more to do with progression.

    Yes, you die in ID, but if you've progressed properly through tier 1 content, you'll have a damn good chance at getting through it.

    In PVP, it has nothing to do with progression. All tiers of players are smashed into one battle, this is just absurd.

    WoW solved the problem by seperating arena from battlegrounds, where arenas were more structured and had better rewards. There are several other solutions that would work also. But doing nothing and leaving the current system is not an option. The game will just bleed PVP players until there are none left.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by antigonos View Post
    the thing is:

    dont EXCLUDE proplayers from gaming but give them an ALTERNATIVE to play AGAINST EACH OTHER.

    Aka: As i said from beta 1: we need 5vs5 Warfronts ONLY PREMADES can queue.
    A very good suggestion also.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by antigonos View Post
    you sure?

    player 20 is a veteran with third twink playing. player 1 is a noob got all his favor with afking in conquest.

    so player 20 is matched with the other veterans cause your system thinks he is a bad or new player. player 1 is matched with the other noobs. outcome of wf 500:000

    ...
    I would agree with you if skill had as much to do with victory as gear does. But that just isnt the case. Someone with full r50 gear and their WAR PA tree filled out can faceroll new players. Gear has so much bearing on a fight it eclipses all other factors (other than missmatches, 3v1 etc). Because gear is such a factor there needs to be a GEAR PROGRESSION. Thats what is missing.

    Now, they could downplay the roll of valor and vengeance in PVP to make it more homogeneous, but then what would be the point of PVPing?

    There has to be something to work up to, and there has to be some gradual way to get there. The current system is lacking this.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insodus View Post
    It has less to do with constant dying, and more to do with progression.

    Yes, you die in ID, but if you've progressed properly through tier 1 content, you'll have a damn good chance at getting through it.

    In PVP, it has nothing to do with progression. All tiers of players are smashed into one battle, this is just absurd.
    A better way to say it is this...

    Imagine when they released HK, that they disabled GSB and ROS; and they disabled HK when ID came out. Thats effectively what the PVP landscape is like now. The top tier players already have the previous tier, so they progress nicely into it, but the new players have no where else to go except to try and step into that content and they of course have no chance.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Insodus View Post
    In PVP, it has nothing to do with progression.
    Progression in PVP: 1. Get a gear, well that is easy part. 2. Master Ur class, basically L2P.. especially new player might need a time learn every class weakness etc.. Most funniest players are those keyboard turners..just lol. Yes PVP can be hard

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by antigonos View Post
    you sure?

    player 20 is a veteran with third twink playing. player 1 is a noob got all his favor with afking in conquest.

    so player 20 is matched with the other veterans cause your system thinks he is a bad or new player. player 1 is matched with the other noobs. outcome of wf 500:000

    ...
    Generally lifetime favor is good meter, exceptional players will be there always, u can't do nothing about that.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breward View Post
    Get a gear, well that is easy part.
    Not really, thats the whole point. Because you have to buy all previous tiers to get the next tier, currently you need to spend a million favor to get into top tier gear.

    Now, if you're new and you keep getting placed into matches with geared players, your kills are going to be on the low side. Also you'll probably have a higher chance of losing the overall match. That means you'll probably only get a little over 1500 favor per game on average. Thats almost 700 matches you need to play to get gear. At 15 minutes a match thats over 10,000 hours of favor grinding. I'm sorry but thats not easy.

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    Ranked warfronts are for P50's. Like it or not, that's how it is. Conquest offers a quick, easy, and above all painless (sponge off the zerg) way to achieve max rank, and that's what I suggest you do until you can swim with the big fish. Consider yourself lucky really. Some of us had to level the hard way, sans Conquest, and it was three times as slow, or more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennacide View Post
    Ranked warfronts are for P50's. Like it or not, that's how it is. Conquest offers a quick, easy, and above all painless (sponge off the zerg) way to achieve max rank, and that's what I suggest you do until you can swim with the big fish. Consider yourself lucky really. Some of us had to level the hard way, sans Conquest, and it was three times as slow, or more.
    Conquest is a step in the right direction, but its not the solution. You can only do it once every couple hours. We need more things like that for new PVPers to do.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Insodus View Post
    Not really, thats the whole point. Because you have to buy all previous tiers to get the next tier, currently you need to spend a million favor to get into top tier gear.

    Now, if you're new and you keep getting placed into matches with geared players, your kills are going to be on the low side. Also you'll probably have a higher chance of losing the overall match. That means you'll probably only get a little over 1500 favor per game on average. Thats almost 700 matches you need to play to get gear. At 15 minutes a match thats over 10,000 hours of favor grinding. I'm sorry but thats not easy.
    "Because you have to buy all previous tiers to get the next tier"

    U sure?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breward View Post
    "Because you have to buy all previous tiers to get the next tier"

    U sure?
    Absolutely.

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