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Thread: Warrior Deeps Big Manly Guide LvL 60 ONLY

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    when u ppl go to sleep then i can finaly parse some and see.
    Rofl True enough... Seems a bit heavy handed so far. Parsing much less than mages at 50, but closer to rogues and clerics. I think some of the stuff they nerfed should have just been pushed higher in the tree.

    Yep at 50 tempest just plain sucks

  2. #42
    Senior Member Sharog's Avatar
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    with some random parses, this is my rough estimate.

    current 51/25 ranged is very similar to Mage counterparts, better than cleric/rogues
    current 51/25 melee // 61 or 51 paragon variants seem to be doing about 7-8% ahead of rogue/mage melee, and cleric worst.
    current 61 rb melee doing similar dps to other classes melee builds.
    current 48/28 wl/para is about 35% ahead, yeh.....
    current 61 tempest is garbage.

    Expect further Nerfs, most likely riftstrike, RW related abilities, and buffs in Warlord, warlord crystal 2p bonus getting removed.
    <Spectral Oilypics>

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    with some random parses, this is my rough estimate.

    current 51/25 ranged is very similar to Mage counterparts, better than cleric/rogues
    current 51/25 melee // 61 or 51 paragon variants seem to be doing about 7-8% ahead of rogue/mage melee, and cleric worst.
    current 61 rb melee doing similar dps to other classes melee builds.
    current 48/28 wl/para is about 35% ahead, yeh.....
    current 61 tempest is garbage.

    Expect further Nerfs, most likely riftstrike, RW related abilities, and buffs in Warlord, warlord crystal 2p bonus getting removed.
    that 51 is 51rb/25temp ranged correct?
    then the next 51 is para?

    Also that sucks about tempest, I am rather enjoying it.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    with some random parses, this is my rough estimate.

    current 51/25 ranged is very similar to Mage counterparts, better than cleric/rogues
    current 51/25 melee // 61 or 51 paragon variants seem to be doing about 7-8% ahead of rogue/mage melee, and cleric worst.
    current 61 rb melee doing similar dps to other classes melee builds.
    current 48/28 wl/para is about 35% ahead, yeh.....
    current 61 tempest is garbage.

    Expect further Nerfs, most likely riftstrike, RW related abilities, and buffs in Warlord, warlord crystal 2p bonus getting removed.
    So basically what your saying is that RB is about to become non viable as a contender. If they are balancing around 61pt builds, as you say they are, then RB is going to suffer from further nerfs since it's parses are in line with other melee souls and Paragon is 7-8% ahead, probably more. I truly hope that the nerfs to RB aren't because of your preference for stupid soul mechanics and rotations Sharogy, seeing as you have the devs ear and all.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    warlord crystal 2p bonus getting removed.
    This is what I've been expecting since I saw the new crystals. +10% AP at all times? None of the other crystals even come close to that.

  6. #46
    rb is viable.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghbeats View Post
    rb is viable.
    It's viable now but not if they continue to nerf it in the quest to make Paragon top dog.

  8. #48
    Hey sharogy the end of your st 61RB rotation seems way off.

  9. #49
    The first post haven't been updated yet.
    Last update 2-11.
    He is testing the spec before updating it.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    It's viable now but not if they continue to nerf it in the quest to make Paragon top dog.
    your version of viable is to make it outdps every spec from any class. rb at its current state still outdpses a lot of specs not just in the warrior class but against every other class. not to mention rb is a melee soul that has decent range and aoe capabilities.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghbeats View Post
    your version of viable is to make it outdps every spec from any class. rb at its current state still outdpses a lot of specs not just in the warrior class but against every other class. not to mention rb is a melee soul that has decent range and aoe capabilities.
    Other classes are not too far off. Me and my guild mates have been parsing lvl 60 in pvp gear all night. we are pretty close. Little tweaks may be needed here and there. Rogue is about 1k under range and melee, and mages are about the same melee as us.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerolicious View Post
    Other classes are not too far off. Me and my guild mates have been parsing lvl 60 in pvp gear all night. we are pretty close. Little tweaks may be needed here and there. Rogue is about 1k under range and melee, and mages are about the same melee as us.
    Other classes are still far off. Range is probably close now but we blow everyone out of the water in melee.

  13. #53
    Senior Member Sharog's Avatar
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    Quota Updated* slight adjustment to RB. in Regards to ST DPS Ranking, the ideal result would be the following:

    #1 61/51 Paragon, 48wl/28 para.
    #2 51rb/25temp Melee
    #3 61 rb.
    #4 51rb/25temp or 51/61temp Ranged

    Reason as the following:
    #1 High paragon builds or the 48 wl variant has no Reliable AOE to speak of neither do they have any Ranged options, aka on a dummy parse they need to be Ahead, in Real fights, this would yield Equal result against other RB melee builds as they have much more Ranged options.
    #2 61 RB melee need to be worse than 51rb/25temp melee, because u dont have a 2s standing still cast time ability nor do u have a 6s stand still channel ability. also ur AOE is much better in melee.
    <Spectral Oilypics>

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    Quota Updated* slight adjustment to RB. in Regards to ST DPS Ranking, the ideal result would be the following:

    #1 61/51 Paragon, 48wl/28 para.
    #2 51rb/25temp Melee
    #3 61 rb.
    #4 51rb/25temp or 51/61temp Ranged

    Reason as the following:
    #1 High paragon builds or the 48 wl variant has no Reliable AOE to speak of neither do they have any Ranged options, aka on a dummy parse they need to be Ahead, in Real fights, this would yield Equal result against other RB melee builds as they have much more Ranged options.
    #2 61 RB melee need to be worse than 51rb/25temp melee, because u dont have a 2s standing still cast time ability nor do u have a 6s stand still channel ability. also ur AOE is much better in melee.
    Precisely.

    Hoping to get some level 60 testing in soon if possible.

  15. #55
    Senior Member Sharog's Avatar
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    Tested the new "wave length" 61pts tempest ability, fun fact, same build without using that buff get u more dps !, since 40% of the time u are channeling/casting stuff that cant be reduced by GCD.

    its current DPS is reasonably comparable to other class ranged souls. however requires some "toggling" with cancelbuff and recast buff of "wave length" to max dps. as it currently has no GCD on rebuffing.
    <Spectral Oilypics>

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    Quota Updated* slight adjustment to RB. in Regards to ST DPS Ranking, the ideal result would be the following:

    #1 61/51 Paragon, 48wl/28 para.
    #2 51rb/25temp Melee
    #3 61 rb.
    #4 51rb/25temp or 51/61temp Ranged

    Reason as the following:
    #1 High paragon builds or the 48 wl variant has no Reliable AOE to speak of neither do they have any Ranged options, aka on a dummy parse they need to be Ahead, in Real fights, this would yield Equal result against other RB melee builds as they have much more Ranged options.
    #2 61 RB melee need to be worse than 51rb/25temp melee, because u dont have a 2s standing still cast time ability nor do u have a 6s stand still channel ability. also ur AOE is much better in melee.
    How much ahead is the 61Paragon variant in comparison to 51/25 RB? I ask because, unless you've updated your original post it's still showing 51/25 ahead of 61Paragon by 750 dps with the melee rotation, which would make 51/25 to high and needs to be brought down to about 350-500dps (max) below Paragon. Furthermore, using the argument that Paragon has no reliable ranged capability is a weak justification because they could inject a ranged follow-up into Paragon and that would substantially help it on DC's. If Atrius has drawn his line in the sand on this and refuses to give it a go then I can understand Paragon having to outparse RB on ST because it's essentially a one trick pony. I just worry that because Paragon is a one trick pony that it will have to completely outstrip RB's ST capability in order for people to use it, effectively killing RB as a competative raiding spec. Atrius needs to come to terms with the fact that 9/10 warriors absolutely hate Paragon in it's current state and would much rather see some variety and fluidity put into the soul rather than having it completely outstrip anything else and essentially pingeon hole us into that one soul for ST fights.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    How much ahead is the 61Paragon variant in comparison to 51/25 RB? I ask because, unless you've updated your original post it's still showing 51/25 ahead of 61Paragon by 750 dps with the melee rotation, which would make 51/25 to high and needs to be brought down to about 350-500dps (max) below Paragon. Furthermore, using the argument that Paragon has no reliable ranged capability is a weak justification because they could inject a ranged follow-up into Paragon and that would substantially help it on DC's. If Atrius has drawn his line in the sand on this and refuses to give it a go then I can understand Paragon having to outparse RB on ST because it's essentially a one trick pony. I just worry that because Paragon is a one trick pony that it will have to completely outstrip RB's ST capability in order for people to use it, effectively killing RB as a competative raiding spec. Atrius needs to come to terms with the fact that 9/10 warriors absolutely hate Paragon in it's current state and would much rather see some variety and fluidity put into the soul rather than having it completely outstrip anything else and essentially pingeon hole us into that one soul for ST fights.
    Indeed! I think Atrius should do a poll and to see what peoples favourite souls are and whether they want Paragon deleted. Seriously though, most of us do hate Paragon, why they are persisting with awful gimmicky follow ups is beyond me. Some sort of combo system would be 10x better.

    I personally will be very unhappy if the top Para builds are any more than 5% ahead of RB builds.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    How much ahead is the 61Paragon variant in comparison to 51/25 RB? I ask because, unless you've updated your original post it's still showing 51/25 ahead of 61Paragon by 750 dps with the melee rotation, which would make 51/25 to high and needs to be brought down to about 350-500dps (max) below Paragon.
    he did update his post - his #1 - #4 are the way he's saying it should be.

    thank you for your work on this sharogy - trion just please hire this man already.

  19. #59
    Indeed! I think Atrius should do a poll and to see what peoples favourite souls are and whether they want Paragon deleted. Seriously though, most of us do hate Paragon, why they are persisting with awful gimmicky follow ups is beyond me. Some sort of combo system would be 10x better.

    I personally will be very unhappy if the top Para builds are any more than 5% ahead of RB builds.
    I don't think a pole is needed I just think Atrius needs to get away from one trick ponies within our calling. It's not advanced gameplay but it damne sure is tedious and stupid. Paragon still won't see any use, except by a very small percentage, if it's only 5% above RB on ST because it's a one trick pony and brings nothing to be fight but annoying gameplay and a stupid rotation. Therefore, in order for anyone to play the soul it will have to completely outstrip RB by a good clip. I understand that there is always THE spec, but keep in mind that before 1.11 we had a fair amount of competative ST specs, which ironically Paragon was still our best ST but wasn't used by the majority because it's gameplay is garbage. I'll say it again just to be clear, I'm an advocate of having Paragon remain our top ST spec but I'm also for having RB remain as a competative ST spec as well. If what Sharogy is suggesting is how it plays out with 51/25 melee being 2nd and 61RB being 3rd, then that is acceptable as long as 51/61 Paragon and 48WL don't completely outstrip them. And anything over 500dps is outstripping the lower dps soul, effectively killing it's capability to be competative.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    with some random parses, this is my rough estimate.

    current 51/25 ranged is very similar to Mage counterparts, better than cleric/rogues
    current 51/25 melee // 61 or 51 paragon variants seem to be doing about 7-8% ahead of rogue/mage melee, and cleric worst.
    current 61 rb melee doing similar dps to other classes melee builds.
    current 48/28 wl/para is about 35% ahead, yeh.....
    current 61 tempest is garbage.

    Expect further Nerfs, most likely riftstrike, RW related abilities, and buffs in Warlord, warlord crystal 2p bonus getting removed.
    This is pretty accurate.

    They need to push tempest low tier buffs higher into the tree and buff them too make it viable in 51/61 builds.
    This would also lower riftblade without having to nerf it again.


    Paragon is a mess, I decided against parsing with a 51/61 build last night because of this. I will venture into it tonight some.

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