+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 42

Thread: Warriors vs Rogue rotations

  1. #1

    Warriors vs Rogue rotations

    Over the course of all the changes, Rogues have gotten most of their 2 combo point abilities changed to 1 combo point. For the most part, Rogues are back to the slow 6 second rotation of 5 builders + 1 finisher. Why this was done I really don't know because there was nothing wrong with them. But Warriors on the other hand have the same standard 6 second rotation of 3 builders + 1 finisher at 1.5 seconds except all their top builds are much faster then that. Paragon has Weapon Master which gives them a free attack point every rotation which makes their total rotation 4.5 seconds. Champion has Disruptive Strike that gives 2 attack points for again 4.5 second rotations. Riftblade has off GCD finishers for again 4.5 seconds. You can say that Rogues have Bladedancer which has Precision Strike which gives 2 combo points at no cooldown. But for some strange reason, Precision Strike does less damage then a single combo point builder while the Warriors Disruptive Strike does more damage then their single attack point abilities. Gee....

    What Im asking is, why have Rogues had their rotation delibritly extended back to the 6 second rotation for the most part while Warriors are still at 4.5 seconds?

  2. #2
    Rogues need five builders then a finisher.

    Warriors need three builders then a finisher.

    That's your reason behind 6s compared to 4.5.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    Rogues need five builders then a finisher.

    Warriors need three builders then a finisher.

    That's your reason behind 6s compared to 4.5.
    Not sure what you're trying to get at but Im asking why the intended equal rotation duration between the two classes is no longer equal...

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    155
    really though.. something soo fast and agile.. should take less time than the plate wearing behemoth to strike with such a critically damage blow as a "finisher", in fact.. a rogue traditionally only strikes when it is the fiinishing blow.. as having to pummel something repeatedly in melee over a long period of time is not the best thing for somebody who is more likely to be killed in an out right confrontation, for somebody who has far less health and mitigation.

    Take into account that simple fact.. that rogue have less armor, less health, but more speed and agility.. the concept should more closely resemble a short builder to finisher rotation, with nearly every hit being a critical one.

    perhaps that is the key? either have very devistating finishers, or far less time spent "building up" only to something slightly more damaging...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Primalthirst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    362
    3 Builders + Finisher = 3*1.5 + 1.5 = 6s
    5 Builders + Finisher = 5*1 + 1= 6s

    Learn basic math.

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    3 Builders + Finisher = 3*1.5 + 1.5 = 6s
    5 Builders + Finisher = 5*1 + 1= 6s

    Learn basic math.

    He stated that most rogue builders that did generate 2 CPs now only generate 1, and most warriors builds generate 2 CPs or get a free one every rotation. 5*1 + 1 = 6, 2*1.5 + 1.5= 4.5.

    Learn basic reading.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Primalthirst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    362
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyler View Post
    He stated that most rogue builders that did generate 2 CPs now only generate 1, and most warriors builds generate 2 CPs or get a free one every rotation. 5*1 + 1 = 6, 2*1.5 + 1.5= 4.5.

    Learn basic reading.
    Touche, guess I misread.

    Regardless it is completely irrelevant how long your rotation cycle is, DPS is going to be balanced around existing rotations so it's not an issue at all.

  8. #8
    Well if you want to talk about dps then Paragon gets a 61pt cooldown that reduces their global cooldown to by 0.5 seconds for 15 seconds. Thats 5 rotations for 3 seconds each. Rogues wont get anything that will increase their DPS as much as that cooldown will. Rogues arent really Rogues if they're not fast... having a slow rotation sucks.

  9. #9
    Only remember MM 61 point skill (mainly play ranged) which is Free Recoil, which will give you a 15 second rotation of Empowered Shot and a finisher. How many rotations is that?

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    8
    Free Recoil only works on 1 finisher and you have 15s to use it. Refresh is 21sec....

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    8
    With that stated...

    With balanced DPS across all the classes I do not see how it truely matters how you get to the end result. This is what makes each of the classes unique.

    Not to mention not all Rogue roles require 5 actions to reach a finisher.
    i.e. Assassin can reach it in as little as 2
    MM in as little as 1
    Ranger is almost always between 3-4
    Sabo can get to 5 in 1 (not to mention traps and bombs)

    I think it is a bold statement assuming warriors have it 'easier' than rogues. Though I do admit the BD rotation is rather complicated to keep up without the use of add-ons such as KaruulAlert. Actually most rogue rotations now require the use of add-ons to even play the builds efficiently.

  12. #12
    My point was all Warrior top specs require less time every single rotation. While Rogue top specs all require more time then Warriors. Marksman doesnt count because its not a top spec. All other souls have cooldowns that cant be used every rotation. So dont say anything about cooldowns cause thats not the point here.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2
    So you're whining because Warriors can hit their finishers faster than rogues and rogues have to hit their builders more often? In the end you'll push more buttons as a rogue than a warrior since warriors have a 1.5 gcd. See? You get to be fast and agile on the keyboard as a rogue vs a warrior that gets to be slow and push fewer buttons.

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    23
    It's really more a quality of life change and in my eyes it only affects 2 specs for rogue.

    Nightblade was a really agile and fast, intuitive soul. No matter if pvp or pve, it was nice on fights with target switching. Now you only get 1 CP per builder and the one builder that hits harder than your standard one drains you of energy faster than you can look at your screen. For this soul, less CP = less finishers = bad refresh rate of fiery spikes (which are a big part of your dps). Sometimes if you are not careful you cannot even refresh the spikes in the way it is intended (by a 5CP finisher) because it will run out before you can finish.

    For assasin, with 2 skills you get CP really fast, once they are out you have to wait again. And you will not want to play SIN with anything else than 5 CP finishers because it could result in a big dps loss.

    For the other souls it did not really change that much (not considering ranger, I never really liked it anyway).

    Since finishers are what count you are pretty much f***** in pvp. You need those finishers (because they all trigger abilities needed for the specs to work) and you have to wait for 5 seconds to get to them. However you die within 4 seconds to Nyrsyrs or any warrior of your choice.

    I like the way warriors work in also building 2 attack points and so on but reducing rogues to 1 CP builders basically takes out the mobility that was the one thing making rogues unique.
    Slow build up to finishers means bad at target switching and stupid for pvp.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nsan1ty View Post
    So you're whining because Warriors can hit their finishers faster than rogues and rogues have to hit their builders more often? In the end you'll push more buttons as a rogue than a warrior since warriors have a 1.5 gcd. See? You get to be fast and agile on the keyboard as a rogue vs a warrior that gets to be slow and push fewer buttons.
    It wouldnt be that bad but the fact that Warrior builders hit harder then Rogue finishers so it doesnt matter what you do as a Rogue... you'll be doing less damage no matter what you do with a harder rotation and more buttons then a Warrior.

    There was no reason to remove most of Rogue 2 cp builders.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by Temo View Post
    Only remember MM 61 point skill (mainly play ranged) which is Free Recoil, which will give you a 15 second rotation of Empowered Shot and a finisher. How many rotations is that?
    This is incorrect.

  17. #17
    Again Marksman doesnt mean squat because it will not be a top spec because its ranged.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    155
    its all very incorrect.. and even warrior "tanking" souls can do back to back 20k hits (pve people may think this cool, until threat is pulled, but in pve Everything is a weapon is broken as **** and should simply be removed.. not nerfed)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    This is incorrect.
    You cannot do rotations with only Empowered Shot and finishers for 15 seconds long? Then how does it work? Because the way I read it, finishers will take 2 points and MM finishers will make Empowered Shot instant cast, so you can make rotations with only ES and finishers, no?

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by Temo View Post
    You cannot do rotations with only Empowered Shot and finishers for 15 seconds long? Then how does it work? Because the way I read it, finishers will take 2 points and MM finishers will make Empowered Shot instant cast, so you can make rotations with only ES and finishers, no?
    It works on only 1 finisher. If it worked for 15s out of every 21s then a lvl 60 mm would be the most over powered thing on earth, well outside of a EiaW warrior. The buff will last for up to 15s but is consumed on the first finisher used.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts