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Thread: Warriors vs Rogue rotations

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    It works on only 1 finisher. If it worked for 15s out of every 21s then a lvl 60 mm would be the most over powered thing on earth, well outside of a EiaW warrior. The buff will last for up to 15s but is consumed on the first finisher used.
    What you're saying makes sense, although I could've sworn I read somewhere on the beta or live forums that it works the way I described it. But I can't find it, so I'll just have to accept as the way you described it.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    Well if you want to talk about dps then Paragon gets a 61pt cooldown that reduces their global cooldown to by 0.5 seconds for 15 seconds. Thats 5 rotations for 3 seconds each. Rogues wont get anything that will increase their DPS as much as that cooldown will. Rogues arent really Rogues if they're not fast... having a slow rotation sucks.
    If you are going to talk about warrior cooldowns (something a warrior has not had in the entire of 1.0) And then blatenly ignore the Blade dancer CD Dualsim that gives their moves the ability to hit 2 times, and add an extra combo point, it reduces your rotation to 3 builder + finisher = 4 seconds.

    Assassin has Serpent strike, not to mention thread of death which lets you do a stealth move every 15 seconds that adds *3* combo points if specced right

    Rift stalker has shadow blitz+ shadow stalk

    Marksmen lets you do an empowered shot EVERY rotation

    Ranger has moves to give extra combo points too

    Nightblade gets a fiery spike every rotation if done correctly

    You get my point. Anyway, warriors using 3 cd's in their rotation is nothing new. Most warrior specs before 1.11 used 3 gcd's to get 3 ap and a finisher off.

    And if you want to talk about fair, why is it fair that paragon cannot use anything between the builder and the follow up attack, yet blade dancer can?
    Hint, its called class balance

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    It works on only 1 finisher. If it worked for 15s out of every 21s then a lvl 60 mm would be the most over powered thing on earth, well outside of a EiaW warrior. The buff will last for up to 15s but is consumed on the first finisher used.
    I actually stumbled on the post, see here.

  4. #24
    Actually, never mind my previous post. -.-

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Weenz View Post
    And if you want to talk about fair, why is it fair that paragon cannot use anything between the builder and the follow up attack, yet blade dancer can?
    Hint, its called class balance
    OH Thank you, someone has a brain... I see bitching about Rogues having harder rotations but really, if Warriors hit a builder we can hit nothing but a follow up after if we're in the Paragon Spec, which is a load of trash now since it's no longer even a viable Top DPS Spec, which is ironic considering it's meant to be the ST DPS Soul.

    Rotations are so strict that we can't even break it to do other stuff, any disconnects will result in you either losing a good chunk of your DPS or completely destroying you. Oh I have an interrupt in the Paragon Soul, but guess what I can't even mix that in without PERFECT timing (When I did not just use a builder).

  6. #26
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellcross View Post
    OH Thank you, someone has a brain... I see bitching about Rogues having harder rotations but really, if Warriors hit a builder we can hit nothing but a follow up after if we're in the Paragon Spec, which is a load of trash now since it's no longer even a viable Top DPS Spec, which is ironic considering it's meant to be the ST DPS Soul.

    Rotations are so strict that we can't even break it to do other stuff, any disconnects will result in you either losing a good chunk of your DPS or completely destroying you. Oh I have an interrupt in the Paragon Soul, but guess what I can't even mix that in without PERFECT timing (When I did not just use a builder).

    which is all ironic since it does as much as 2x the dps of top rogue builds...... that irony.. sneaks up on ya..

    warrior terms:
    Viable= means doing top dps, no less
    Balance= Means being overpowered
    Nerf= means they fixed something broken
    Fix= Means they buffed or accidentally broke something to be beneficial to dps parses.
    Rotation= being able to macro everything needed in into 1 button
    Solo Viability= means wanting massive self healing even though they can pull 20k+ st hits and 40k aoe dps..
    Mobility= Must have the most openers and closers in the game, otherwise it's "lacking"


    long have warriors talked about their "craft" with terms and verbage to imply some concept of scientific thought, though the reality is that most don't have a clue where their dps numbers are really coming from. From back when reflective/repercussive dmg buffs would do 75%-80 of the dmg for them, hitting 30+ times or so for every 5-6 hits from an opponent, to erroneous and massively unwarranted multipliers to all of their dmg abilities causing outrageous damage in a single strike.

    get over it people.. help fix your own classes first before we start crying about how somebody else got ice cream and we didn't. We know we are the black sheep here, work on changing that bit and less on how OP warrior is, one more beta event to iron things out.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    which is all ironic since it does as much as 2x the dps of top rogue builds...... that irony.. sneaks up on ya..
    Yea considering our Rising Waterfall constitutes to a good chunk of our DPS and requires that we do not interrupt it with anything. Do you Rogues have to do that? NO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    warrior terms:
    Viable= means doing top dps, no less
    Balance= Means being overpowered
    Nerf= means they fixed something broken
    Fix= Means they buffed or accidentally broke something to be beneficial to dps parses.
    Rotation= being able to macro everything needed in into 1 button
    Solo Viability= means wanting massive self healing even though they can pull 20k+ st hits and 40k aoe dps..
    Mobility= Must have the most openers and closers in the game, otherwise it's "lacking"
    Viable - Would I take a Rogue who has the possibility of sustaining 100% DPS Time doing over 4,000 DPS or would a take a Warrior who cannot have that sustainability? Don't even talk about Tempest because that's just trash and completely useless to the raid.

    Nerf - Who was it that asked for the nerf first? WARRIORS.

    Rotation - If you think everything's macroed, then you're doing it wrong.

    Fix - Not even going to talk about this considering the patch notes. Cmon TRION, you got 1 sentence fixes for other classes, yet we see a good chunk of "fixes" for Warrior classes, is this a fail in testing or did you not even realize your own mistakes before implementing? I frankly enjoy helping with tests and reports, but this is beyond stupid as if you're just changing numbers without any form of thinking behind it. "Hey lets do this and see what it does" rather than "Well what if we do this, what sort of result would we get?". Maybe if you guys stopped to think for once or get your heads out of your ***, you'd realise "No this is not going to work, let's try a different approach". You lay it out there without thinking of the consequences? I love RIFT, I just hate seeing fellow players leave over stupid fixes that could've "EASILY" been prevented.[/QUOTE]

    From Guildmate - "Dude, I love the Rogue DEV this is perfectly balanced".
    Sorry Warrior DEVs, looks like we'll just be stuck to TANKING or playing BEEFMASTER.

  8. #28
    This thread is about how every class doesn't use the same mechanics to deal damage.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weenz View Post
    If you are going to talk about warrior cooldowns (something a warrior has not had in the entire of 1.0) And then blatenly ignore the Blade dancer CD Dualsim that gives their moves the ability to hit 2 times, and add an extra combo point, it reduces your rotation to 3 builder + finisher = 4 seconds.
    Actually, Bladedancer continues to use four builders during Dualism, building to six combo points. QS->KS->QS->KS->Finisher lets you fit two off-hand attacks into the next Deadly Dance sequence. If you leave off that last KS, you lose out on a significant amount of damage.

    I'd argue that Bladedancer is a poor point of comparison, anyways, given that builders make up the bulk of its damage (while most rogue specs are more centered on finishers).

  10. #30
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    7.2k st dps in greens at 50... Trash tempest is not. 10k st dps as melee in id with live wariors.. vs rogue at 6-6.5k... Nope.. nothing imbalanced there.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    7.2k st dps in greens at 50... Trash tempest is not. 10k st dps as melee in id with live wariors.. vs rogue at 6-6.5k... Nope.. nothing imbalanced there.
    WTF you are so full of it. You did not do 7.2k as a tempest in greens and the 10k happened before the nerf to scald that happened on thursday. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, at all...

  12. #32
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerolicious View Post
    WTF you are so full of it. You did not do 7.2k as a tempest in greens and the 10k happened before the nerf to scald that happened on thursday. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, at all...
    10K from our wars Thursday night.. when we raid. 7.2 was day 1 of public beta 3 , this last Friday, don't worry, atrius is getting as and vids of it as soon as I get back, wasn't hard to do.

    You should not get soo upset just because other people parse better than you, unless your lack of dps is your own failure to work on being a better player. (Negligent playing).

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    10K from our wars Thursday night.. when we raid. 7.2 was day 1 of public beta 3 , this last Friday, don't worry, atrius is getting as and vids of it as soon as I get back, wasn't hard to do.

    You should not get soo upset just because other people parse better than you, unless your lack of dps is your own failure to work on being a better player. (Negligent playing).
    Actually you are right, the hotfix was friday. Thursday was still while it was being abused. I was also able to pull off horrendous numbers. But the fact still remains, it has been nerfed, and you know little of what you are talking about.

    And for 7.2 tempest in greens, prove it. Send me a dummy parse of you in greens pulling this off, because it is a flat out fabrication.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    You should not get soo upset just because other people parse better than you, unless your lack of dps is your own failure to work on being a better player.
    Maybe you should take some of your own advice

  15. #35
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    calm down guys.. lol.. never seen soo many people angry for underperforming with broken souls.

    dont worry.. atrius is whittling temp down, a bit at a time. imo, while warrior may easily dominate melee dps, it should never do so as a ranged role, while capable, it should definitely do the least at range than the other souls who are either nearly all range or ate over 1/2 ranged (since it has only 1 ranged soul in it..)

    melee>ranged>support>other guys

    Melee:
    Warrior, rogue, mage (idk what to say of cleric.. honestly)

    Ranged:
    Mage>rogue>cleric>warrior

    heals:
    Cleric>mage>rogue


    oh, and just because

    ford>dodge>chevy

    ms>apple

    >ps3>xbox360>psvita>empty soda can>wii

    Trion Worlds>Blizzard

    Transformers>Gobots

    real beef>soyburgers

    anyways.. be back to retest from changes, and post data (that btw.. other have also been able to accomplish)

  16. #36
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    I think the issue is evolution. In 2010 beta and at launch the combo/attack point system was a major tool to controlling dps. However it added a third variable. I think the devs have decided it is simply easier to control dps via energy and actual ability damage and moved combo points onto the rogue and off the target to further this goal.

  17. #37
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    @Mirimon

    I don't get what you are meaning with the callings ordered by Melee and range.
    Is it what you expect or what you have seen in live or beta?

    Because the only things I'm expecting from what I heard and understood during the different livestreams is that Melee Dps should be 5% above range Dps on stationary fights. But I expect each callings to perform equaly If range or melee. Which is indeed not the case in live or beta right now.

  18. #38
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    By that logic warriors should be hands down the best tanks as well.

  19. #39
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    Warriors shouldn't be the best at tanking but in line with the other callings.
    But warriors should be more versatile at tanking because they have more tank souls. The real "bonus" for having different souls for tanking is to choose the playstyle that you like the most.

    Same reasoning whith Dps. I don't expect rogues to be well above warriors because they have more dps souls. (and I play a rogue)

  20. #40
    Has anyone fully tested Rogue at 60? As of right now Mage range specs and Warriors Tempest (which is currently being toned down) still out dps Rogue melee specs which according to Devs should not happen.

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