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Thread: Some Thoughts from Beta #1

  1. #1
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    Some Thoughts from Beta #1

    After testing warrior, rogue, cleric and mage souls in Beta #1, it's pretty clear that the warrior souls had the most changes and still have the most bugs/balance issues.

    It's not surprising given the changes that happened:

    Tempest - complete new soul
    Warlord - complete revamp (tanking to hybrid)
    Beast Master - complete revamp (dps to support)
    Champion - major changes (from 2H to AoE specialist)
    Paragon - major changes (from duel-wield to ST specialist)
    Void Knight - major changes
    Paladin - major changes
    Reaver - major changes
    Riftblade - minor changes

    That's more change than any other calling.

    In limited testing, I found dozens of apparent bugs, some of which were easy to spot (e.g., Soul Sickness), but most required hours of testing and pouring through parse data to determine if the problem was the tool-tip or the actual game code. There just wasn't enough time to actually track them down in one weekend.

    I'm a little dissapointed at how little feedback has been posted on the beta board. In the past, during tanking revamp (patch 1.6) and dps revamp (patch 1.8) we had hundreds of posts with tons of parse data, bug lists, balance suggestions, etc. We have far fewer posters testing in beta #1 it seems; perhaps that will grow in the future betas. I hope so.

    Some early opinions on the souls (all subject to change in Beta #2):
    Beast Master - I like it. Buffs are finally equal to Archon and Bard buffs, does decent dps and has a few unique cooldowns that are useful in raids. TP/BM is also viable.
    Tempest - Yes, finally a ranged dps soul! It plays fine from a rotation point of view. ST DPS still seems a bit behind ranged rogue and mage souls, but I'm sure that will get fixed. This is my favorite warrior DPS soul currently.
    Warlord - 12 points in Warlord worked great in my tanking builds. I could find no other combinations that were useful. I tried 51 Warlord, RB/WL, PG/WL, CH/WL, TP/WL and found them all to be useless. I'm struggling to understand of what use is Warlord. Perhaps someone else found a combination that works?
    Riftblade - plays very close to Riftblade on Live. It's very energy starved, but once that gets fixed, it will be fun to play and good dps.
    Champion - Dissapointing. ST dps is useless. AoE doesn't even have a rotation at 51 pts. At 58 pts it might work, but I obviously couldn't test that. I don't think warriors will go AoE DPS on raids, leave that to the rogues (Sab/Tactician FTW).
    Paragon - DPS seemed fine, but Paragon still has the reliance on SLI that makes it annoying to play. Follow-up attacks are fine, but any build without SLI fails. I thought the SLI crutch died when the Rising Waterfall build died...
    Reaver - more DOT's to manage than Warlock! I'll skip it.
    Void Knight - mitigation compared to Live seemed off, but play style was fine. The lack of Singularity is currently killer.
    Paladin - mitigation compared to Live seemed off; playstyle more like Justicar with self heals and DoL type raid heals. Where did Steely Resolve go? Without Steely Resolve or Paladin's devotion, you are stuck using Break Free on its 2m timer. Good Luck with that.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    I too am disappointed in feedback on the warrior side.. especially in regards to tempest. Most completely chose to ignore that soul all together.. others glanced at is and w/o learning how to play it claimed it to be wonky and unplayable.

    I saw only a few warriors on pts trying to nail down how to play it.. most were coming about ~400 dps under Ranger

    One person in particular I found was doing exceptional with it. I thought my parse was buggy, but I sat there for hours.. watching him.. parsing him.. resetting and checking the numbers...

    lvl50, ID tank gear (was using a 2h weapon) full on tempest= 9k+ st dps on several 10min parses...

    I really wanted to pull out a warrior and test this for myself.. and see if I can duplicate and/or improve it.. but I didn't have that option for this "test"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    lvl50, ID tank gear (was using a 2h weapon) full on tempest= 9k+ st dps on several 10min parses...
    Soul Sickness bug.

    That being said, I really did like Tempest. Paired with RB made it a very good ranged option. I was pulling 4.5-5k easy (and still haven't found the optimal rotation that didn't feel clunky).
    Kaybye - Tabula Rasa - 11/11 (Conq), 8/8 ID (Conq) - Still Only raiding 9 hours a week.

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    Senior Member Xillean's Avatar
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    While I focused mainly on cleric changes and bard ones, I did try out Tempest on my warrior and while im sure I wasn't doing it perfect I thought it was a ton of fun. Main thing I noticed is the stealth while being still doesn't seem to always break if you move, there were times I could slowly inch forward and it wouldn't fail and I could even jump without it breaking. Then there were times if I made any kind of movement it would fail immediately.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaybye View Post
    Soul Sickness bug.

    That being said, I really did like Tempest. Paired with RB made it a very good ranged option. I was pulling 4.5-5k easy (and still haven't found the optimal rotation that didn't feel clunky).
    ^^ those numbers are above ranged rogue dps (specifically ranger, mm is bugged to hell atm)

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    Agree with most comments. Would like to add:

    Tempest - Needs some buffs with single target. I spent several hours with the soul and ran a few dungeons. Did decent single target dps while trying to manage dots with flame spear, fiery burst, and other ability (forgot name). Overall is a good soul but needs some help single target.

    Warlord - Spent alot of time with this soul. Has serious issues with energy starvation. This is very serious for the soul. Needs for the reactives to proc of crit or have base percent chance when in damage stance (forgot name again) lol. When change to defensive stance have the procs off block and parry like on Beta.

    Champion - Utter garbage. Needs serious increase in single target and AOE damage. So bad I cannot see anyone playing it.

    Rift Blade - Energy Starvation. Needs serious help with this issue.

    Tanks - Overall like tanking and paladin with heals was fun. I think both paladin and void knight need an increase in base mitiation. The damage taken seemed way to high. Mitigation is an issue with warrior tanking and needs to be adjusted (i.e. buff). I had to make a tank soul for a few dungeons. Was fun but I really believe mitigation is off.

    Did not get a chance to play around with the other souls.

  7. #7
    Champion - Dissapointing. ST dps is useless. AoE doesn't even have a rotation at 51 pts. At 58 pts it might work, but I obviously couldn't test that. I don't think warriors will go AoE DPS on raids, leave that to the rogues (Sab/Tactician FTW).

    Paragon - DPS seemed fine, but Paragon still has the reliance on SLI that makes it annoying to play. Follow-up attacks are fine, but any build without SLI fails. I thought the SLI crutch died when the Rising Waterfall build died...

    Reaver - more DOT's to manage than Warlock! I'll skip it.
    Read through the threads. We have been repeating this in several places. All of these macro threads are regarding these souls right here.

    The Paragon one is easily my biggest pet peeve. Tempest has a ton of potential, but due to qq'n from Rogues it will never be a viable ranged dps soul and might end up getting nerfed due to the burst from "charged blast" I think it is called.

    The reason you do not see extremely detailed feedback is because noone expected the sheer amount of changes and noone saw any point in completely removing macros. We need much much much much much more time to come up with rotations to min/max them.

    Alpha players are going to have a massive head start. If you are not in a alpha guild you might as well skip the idea of trying to get world first because if Ahov is any indication they are not going to be putting out any useful guides for atleast the first month.

    My guess is most of us thought what I did. We would take our current builds and toy around with them and have more points to do hybrid builds. Instead Champion became useless, they made everything instant so macro'n is useless and we are severely energy starved.

    This is all stuff that took them 9+ months in live and god knows how many unsubs due to the roller coaster of nerfs/buffs to fix. We finally have some stability and now we are back to 1.0 and have to start over.

  8. #8
    I parsed higher ranged DPS with 51 RB/15 Tempest than I did with 51 Tempest, but maybe I was just terrible at the 51 Tempest rotation, the 51 RB one is so clean and easy.

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    Friday night I was able to parse over 6k with Paragon using 2h but I was never able to repeat it all weekend. Between lag and Follow-up attack lag (which apparently only I was experiencing), my DPS suffered horribly at the dummies in Paragon. I dunno, I just couldn't find a time to parse when there weren't 20 - 30 other people parsing and the lag was killing me.

    Follow-up attacks seemed to only give me 2 AP about 80 - 90% of the time. Most of the time I did get 2 AP, the 2nd AP came a full GCD later. Isn't it about time that Weapon Master just gave the 2nd AP instantly, and cut out the delay?

    I was playing with variations of the rotation trying to figure out the timing of things and find ways to squeeze out more, or less, dps etc... and if the lag didn't make things simply not go off, follow-ups would bug out and I'd get screwed that way instead. It was extremely frustrating.

    Beyond that I was sitting there at one point with 3 builders, 2 followups (one for sub 30%), 3 finishers (2 macro'd together), shifting blades & flurry all on my bar, knowing that other stuff would be added to the mix when I leveled up and... I mean, just holy crap. 5 or 6 buttons is easily managed by most players while responding to fight mechanics. It's more difficult by far when learning a fight, and nearing painful when you toss in 5 to 6 MORE buttons on top of that, all to manage dps? I mean, we're not even talking defensive/survivability cooldowns, pots, etc. I dread the day we get stuck with this rotation on a progression fight. Seriously.

    SM needs a cooldown. Flamespear needs a cooldown. Paragon finishers need a buff and/or RB finishers need a nerf. Flurry channel time needs to be reduced to the 2.5 to 3 seconds we're used to timing for Cornered Beast (currently on live), if for no other reason than it would time far better into a standard rotation. In fact I'd suggest Flurry drop to a 2.5 second channel that grants 2 AP. Then we could fit it in after another builder just before SLI fades, and re-apply SLI as it finishes (off the GCD, of course). SLI obviously needs to be re-balanced, while we're at it.

    Oh and... dual wield is parsing higher than 2h for Paragon. 400 to 600 dps higher in my tests using the same rotation(s)/spec(s).

    Across the board I think all of the skills that grant 3.5% healing off of builders need to be re-addressed. That amount of healing isn't enough to make a difference when solo. It might take the edge off on long fights, but long fights weren't the real problem. In fact, I solo'd the same without any such buff as I did with such buffs without noticing the "loss" of those "heals"... pretty easy indicator that they were useless. Low level toons will get hit hardest by this, since you also moved Touch of Life deeper into Paladin, which means lowby toons aren't going to get a solid heal until long after they can currently. Makes me less enthusiastic about recommending warrior to anyone who's new to melee combat, new to MMO's, etc. As of right now I'd be pushing them toward Harbinger (mage)... and I don't like saying that.

    Tempest overall felt smooth, once you got the hang of it. 3 builder keybinds (2 were macros). 2 finishers. Everything else was cooldowns (Jolt, storm shield, etc). It played smoothly and had a lot of flexibility. Self healing with Jolt was very nice for soloing. Ranged AoE made for easy multi-mob kiting situations, as long as I didn't nab any elite cleric or mage mobs by accident (they need to be tuned way, way down...).

    In fact of the leveling specs I tried, Tempest outperformed them all. I pulled 3.5k to 4.5k on mobs that lived long enough to matter. I pulled upwards of 8k aoe on several occasions, and I was still learning the timing of things... and I have no Tempest crystal whatsoever (that will be rectified pre-1.11).

    I was depressed with Champion. I was put off by the constant issues I had with Follow-ups in Paragon. I enjoyed Tempest but... felt like a mage. Thankfully I enjoy playing my mage, so that isn't a deal breaker but I wear plate and swing a scythe so that I can smash face... and I didn't feel like I had a solid, reliable option for doing that especially soloing. Every melee spec I tried (several hybrids of paragon, warlord, paladin) felt inferior to Tempest when it came right down to it.

    Please take a look at speeding up the AP return from Weapon Master. Ideally when the follow-up hits, not half or a full GCD later.

    Please check out auto-attack & proc DPS from dual wield. I have the feeling that's where the difference is in DPS. I was parsing comparing epic scythe vs stormlord's stinger & brutal carceran berzerker axe. They should have parsed just about the same.

    Please put cooldowns back in place, wisely. Paragon looks to have a 10 to 12 button rotation at 60. no thanks. Not in melee range on anything other than a target dummy. I'm an elitist, but I'm also a realist. If that's the state Paragon goes live in you'll find a great many of us running other specs as our primary DPS and Paragon will relegate itself to and epeen parsing spec used on wall-parked, tank-n-spank bosses and target dummies. It's just not realistic to manage that much on the fly while responding to mechanics or boss movement. I play 51.13.2 by muscle memory and don't even have to look at my action bars to know where I am in my rotation, and that's a 6 button rotation the way I have it laid out... and that feels just about perfect for number of things to manage. It flows nicely, once you master it (and I play it priority-system style, not set rotation mindlessly plugging away).

    As for the expansion itself:

    Pelladane is nice. Lots of graphical glitches (all reported). I think it could stand a tad denser NPC population in some areas, and it seems much more fleshed out than Cape Jule. IA's here were functional, but the porting around needs to be more... consistent, or more accurate? I didn't get ports between IA's when I was "near" the IA location, but only because I was on the other side of a mountain/cliff from the location and below ground and it took a while to run all of the way around to even find the IA location... etc. Things like that. But otherwise, I at least didn't get ported into rocks and got my rewards.

    Cape Jule graphically was very nice. It was sparse, however, with long distances between mobs in the "jungle" areas, and when I arrived I completed a whopping 2 quests and was left with no quest bangs... nothing. Quests should flow you through the zone, and in this case they didn't. Half of the quests deeper in were very, very tedious. As in: stand around and wait for thing X to spawn/refresh, because there are only Y number of them and 2 other people are questing. Mobs also didn't seem to respawn faster with more kills, I would've expected respawn rates to scale up with more people present. Instead much of Cape Jule feels like a barren wasteland if more than 2 or 3 people are in the zone doing anything. And IAs... don't risk it. More than half of them landed me inside of rocks/boulders. Others, the things you needed to click on never lit up to be clicked. Tons of potential in this zone, but my experience here was far less enjoyable than Pelladane.

    Love the wardrobe changes.

    Love the capes (even though apparently only 1 graphic is active at the moment).

    Apothecaries need new armor dye recipes (I recommend metallics: gold, silver, copper, bronze, platinum)


    ...that's about it for now. A lot of the tidbits were reported throughout the weekend, this is just a more wordy summary.

    All in all, I am actually very impressed with the expansion overall, so far. But Beta is about revealing things to work on, not praising
    Wykkyd <Aegis> @Laethys

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    Okay, I didn't get to try out the dps builds or really review the damage focused trees too much. Although I would like to state that I found the idea of making beastmaster a support soul excellent.
    The changes to warlord I thought were right on the money and I had actually argued a little with warriors back in old tanking changes circa 1.6 that it would be nice to see a mix of both agressive and defensive buffs in Warlord.
    I am skeptical of the ranged soul, although from the feedback I've read in here I am hoping that it's a big hit.

    I really spent my time looking at warlord, paladin, void knight and reaver. I also purused the lower echelons of the other dps trees for funzie nice synergy tanky tools but all I could see was the new lower cost dodge/run speed buff from RB. Nothing blatent jumped out at me. Although I'm sure I'll have weeks of playing with hybrid builds once it goes live.

    Concerns:

    The Gift of Readiness or whatever from Warlord, the static 40% damage reduction? I'm worried that it may be a little overpowered. Giving birth to Warlord being the new 51 point Vk build pre-1.6, with a few points left over for VK and Pal to grab a couple of mitigation buffs and call it good? I'm all for great top tier bonuses, but from a tanking perspective that seems very, very enticing and if it's too enticing it will cripple build flexibility.

    Paladin, I love the idea of a holy healing warrior and some of the new retalitory attacks are GREAT. Great threat, good survivability, although the new heals seemed very lackluster and a waste of energy which ofcourse is very precious (many posts on that already). The main concern I had with this class, was the lack of finishers, you had to put many points into the tree to get a couple of 30 sec CD finishers that were so so. I just think that Paladin is really crying out for some nice finishers along the lines of self heals, aoe threat, aoe damage, self buffs something. One single target finisher isn't going to cut it, players will just end up spamming builders to gain threat, especially on multiple mob pulls, whats the point in even having a finisher if people aren't enticed to use it?
    I would be nice to have energy back on block for paladin, maybe energy back on more unpopular dots in reaver and energy on damage taken in VK or whatever. Something, I found myself having to wait around a few seconds to use my builder again after bottoming out. I mean, tanks aren't going to be a beast in dps, not often a viable pvp build, I don't see whats too scary about helping us out with a little energy conservation skills in tanking trees.

    Reaver, everyone's favorite death dealing juggernaught. I was impressed with some of the new dots, nice damage and a great aoe dot finisher. However, the duration is crazy long on that finisher, it's still ticking on mobs while we're rezzing on a wipe *cough* (so I heard, wiping is for newbs) *cough*
    Theres a lot to juggle with a lot of the CDs removed on builders (especially aggressive block, erg, I'm so not staring at all my raid buffs to get 3% block - or dealing with the sheep stick if I turn other buffs off). Please stick some of the CDs on some of the builders again for ease of macro management, it makes life easier to pay attention to whats going on, chatting to people on vent or whatever and generally not staring at my own buffs. Reaver will suffer from this the most, unless a few are put on a general timer to help manage. It'll be so early rogue tanking all over again, managing timers in the top right of your screen over whats going on in your raid isn't that much fun.
    One of the paladin attacks on return stacked, life damage dot or whatever, is that "as designed", it would be nice to read it on the tooltip if indeed it is.
    I'm going to finish this wall of text off, it just crit me for 8357827525! I need to read more on these forums!

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    wrt more posts/data, I'd have liked a lot more as well, but with only 3 days to look at all the changes the OP mentioned, I think many of us are still working through what we think. I hope we'll continue to get more feedback, as people get their data/thoughts together.

    For my own part, I was derailed from serious data collection by trying to make something (anything) work with Champion. I'm mostly a 51/13/2 Champ on live and was looking for something AOEish to go forward with. I'm not top geared (some ID, some HK and a few RotP items (inferno and some rings)). I've got Paragon, BM, and Champ crystals (no RB). I could only compare my results to my parses and not really look to compare to what's being widely reported. I'm also not 100% on my PAs (about 250 points).

    In any case, with Energy starvation, my normal parses on Champ aoe were pretty bad; 3kish across the 3 normal dummies and energy starved very quickly. Compared to live, it was pretty depressing. One thing I'll note that surprised me was that Cornered Beast went from a big hitter to a "keep the DPS flowing while I get some power back" ability. I saw several souls that have these kinds of attacks and I think that's their intent.

    I went from there to a Paragon build (I think it was 51/PA/13RB/2T). The idea was to have some ranged flexibility and 2 points into T gives you a builder and a finisher. ST parsing wasn't great, but ok and I did something around 3.4-3.5 ST on the boss dummy. I went out to Pellane and did some "real world" testing. It seemed to drop the 50/51 level mobs pretty well. It had some AOE kick, but nothing spectacular.

    At this point, I should have looked at the 51PA/15RB that most people are touting as top DPS, but didn't. Played around with various specs and then stumbled on 51RB/10T/5RV (yes, Reaver).

    Now, the Reaver wasn't for the bugged Soul Sickness. In fact, initially, I didn't even put it in the rotation, because it just didn't seem to fit in. This changed, when I saw someone parsing 11.4k aoe next to me and saw that they were reaver, but that was much later.

    For me, this jumped my ST dps up to around 4k and pushed my aoe to around 5.5k (on 3 normal dummies); with no RB crystal. And this was for a rotation that was pretty easy to keep straight and keep the DPS flowing. It's basically 4 buttons (well 5 including the port in).

    Rift Walk->FS->SS->FB/IB->ES/FlS->SS->SS->FB/IB->StS/FlS->SS->SS->FB/IB->....back to beginning at FS and Rift Walk again when up (I didn't macro RW with FS or SS, but probably should)

    where:

    FS = Frost Strike
    SS = Searing Strike
    FB/IB = macro with Fire Burst, then Icy Burst
    Sts/FlS = macro with Stonespear, then Flamespear

    AOE is the same rotation, except sub Thunder Strike for Searing Strike, Rift Storm for Fire Burst, Storm Burst for Icy Burst, and add Fork before Stonespear in the Sts/Fls macro.

    Rift Strike wasn't in my rotation. It does less damage than SS and adds 10 to crit damage for 15 secs. It just didn't seem to be worth the GCD.

    Tried it out in the real world and stuff just melted. ST vs. my paragon build (which admittedly may have been an inferior rotation) was very superior. The rotation is simple and even when I fat-fingered the rotation, I still didn't lose much DPS.

    So why the 5 points in Reaver? Planar Attunement gives 10% to DOTs. Arguably Champions Take No Prisoners (10% to finishers) may be better (and also get bull rush), but there are several big dots in the RB rotation and you will get some addition from Soul Sickness after the correction.

    In tempest, you get the Enhanced Conductivity some good 35m range (that's where 5 points go), as well as +10% to ranged. The +5m also extends the SSpear and FSpear to 25m which can do decent ranged DPS by shortening up the rotation with spears as builders (add Shock Pulse to the end) and finisher with FB/IB (and add Skyfall to the end). You can also step out to 35m with the same rotation, but it loses a lot only getting Shock Pulse and Skyfall.

    AOE ranged rotation works similarly, but adding in the fork to the spears and storm burst/rift storm to the finisher macro.

    Does the build get energy starved? Yes, though it didn't seem to drop as badly as many of my other tests when it did (still getting ~3.7k ST for me). Ranged (especially in the 25-35 range) was very quickly out of energy.

    Note that I took Rift Implosion. It's an OGCD ~2.1k (for me) damage + 25% nova surge and costs 20 energy, I think (might have been 24). I didn't test with it as much (though should have), because I couldn't figure out how to get nova surges on the target. I did a lot of searching and couldn't find what ability adds them. I'd be happy for someone to point out what it is. I just didn't feel like that much energy was worth spending on only 2k, even if it was instant.

    This is long and I'm sure many won't get this far. However, I'm hopeful that this is the kind of info some of us have been looking for. What spec did I use, why did I use certain trade-offs, what was my rotation, what kind of numbers did I get comparatively, etc? This may be pure rubbish, but of all the specs I tried this w/e, this one was the most fun, and packed the most punch (both on dummies and in the "real world". I'll be happy for people to point out where I went wrong, or a spec/rotation that does better.

    Thurfor

  12. #12
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    Tempest - energy starved AoE, otherwise great. I was determined not to like it, it goes against why I rolled warrior, but I was pleasantly suprised. Just drop the AoE channel way down the tree to allow RB hybrids to do some AoE without starvation. Link base damage for the sklill to points spent in tree if you must, or place a booster high up, but we need the skill in hybrids.
    VK - Didn't properly test. Pact generation is completely borked and as it is the soul is ruined. Very dissapointed as its my favorite soul in live.
    Reaver - Didn't test at all. With SS broken it wouldn't be a true test so left it alone.
    Pally - Never liked this tanking tree, however now it suddenly feels great. Something about it as clicked.
    Paragon - Not a massive amount to report on this one tbh. It's just as it is now, but better, however only if you use SLI. Anotehr tree relying on a high skill to be viable is dissapointing.
    Champ - Yeah, I dunno. Something about it just doesn't feel right, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Though I was trying to make it dual purpiose as AoE and solo build due to role limitations, planning my 6 for live, maybe thats why.

    Overall I'd say the improvements are good. Overwhelming at first due to the volume, but once you get stuck in and start playing they're mostly positive. Just too much reliance on high point skills, I want to play with hybrids.

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    I managed to try all the souls barring tank so here goes,

    BM: Played optimally is quite difficult, as you have to go deflie-mancer style. Does decent DPS not played optimally but was still pushing 3.3-3.4k DPS self buffed but it dropped once I got power starved. The spec as it stands needs work. While a challenge is nice, having incredibly complex rotations for a support class feels out of place, and even with a talent that increases the timer on all bleeds it just doesn't seem sufficient. Maybe an attack or a talent deep in BM that refreshes all BM specific dots? I'm not looking for super simplicity, just a reduction in the scale of difficulty, specially for players with high-ish latency.

    RB: I didn't get a thorough test done on this soul but with the damage fiery burst and icy burst w/ scald did, it was mandatory in just about every soul I built. :S
    On that note like mentioned these 2 abilities feel overpowered. Although I do enjoy insane dot damage and damage on icy burst, it feels that these should really scale with a much higher RB build. This way it isn't a mandatory 15 into RB and better yet encourages specs like BM to use their own bleeds. Which in turn may mean a bleed refresher without too much repercussions?

    Champ: Yeah this soul has potential at 60. At 50-52 It's weak, no sustainability despite some of the CD's it has, and the DPS is pathetic. It's ST potential is below standard, even as an AoE focused soul it has no real use, in or outside of raid or any real kind of environment. Even in PvP I see it being lackluster at best.
    The only real thing I like about the spec is marks being off the GCD. In the end seeing how the soul goes at 60 is the only way to go. But I would like the ST DPS capacity to be 3.5-4+, behind Tempest but really showing its AoE dominance in the right situations.

    Paragon: Extremely good, easy to do rotation, decent survivability, it's AoE capacity is almost nil but that's to be expected. Maybe going far enough into RB for rift storm?
    All that withstanding a lot of the DPS comes from RB bursts and like said about RB this is good yet needs to be re-balanced.

    Tempest: While initially my opinion of this spec was mediocre at best, but after I got a semblance on how to play it felt a bit more solid. Certainly some fine tuning required on damage abilities and the tempest synergy crystal may add a bit more power to the spec. Also with the focused fire ability, throw that up every 1 min, particularly during flaring power and every range DPS in the raid will love you for it.
    It's AoE capacity on that note is great and will definitely get better at 60.

    In the end this is all my personal opinion and I am in no way saying this is how things should be, it's just what I desire.

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    New farming spec is tempest cause of jolt
    Tried using tempest in dungoens but para just completly outdps'd it

    Didn't get to try BM in a raid setting spammed hard but oceanic times was like none going ( my bm pet macros were not working either) also bm for me was crazy power starved with no channel unless you use that enrage channel as a way to get your power back while increasing the raids dps? bm looks lke it needs alot of work still

    Hating the new Champ spec untill bladefurys made on a 4second cooldown
    Power starved unless you have cornered beast/flurry/ the tempest range one to use when low on power (thats why they last long its to make sure you've refilled your power)

    Para's back to sli dependent ~ ofcourse since it's been made the "single target" spec what they want us to only spec into this tree for single target dmg? yet they give us a no cd finisher that makes all our attacks AOE!... my reaping harvest was critting for 16k (imagine that with shifting blades :O ) which spread to multiple targets in the dungoen runs I did!

    making para for me the best spec for dps both aoe and st cause the champ spec sucks atm

    btw reaver is doing some great dmg people have been saying that it and a tank spec was farming better and faster then 51tempest builds, ofcourse they didn't have jolt which is such a epic self heal

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorem View Post
    btw reaver is doing some great dmg people have been saying that it and a tank spec was farming better and faster then 51tempest builds, ofcourse they didn't have jolt which is such a epic self heal
    Because its bugged. SS gives its entire damage each tick rather than a portion of it each tick. Putting time into reaver builds / rotations was a pointless exercise

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wykkyd View Post
    Across the board I think all of the skills that grant 3.5% healing off of builders need to be re-addressed. That amount of healing isn't enough to make a difference when solo. It might take the edge off on long fights, but long fights weren't the real problem. In fact, I solo'd the same without any such buff as I did with such buffs without noticing the "loss" of those "heals"... pretty easy indicator that they were useless. Low level toons will get hit hardest by this, since you also moved Touch of Life deeper into Paladin, which means lowby toons aren't going to get a solid heal until long after they can currently. Makes me less enthusiastic about recommending warrior to anyone who's new to melee combat, new to MMO's, etc. As of right now I'd be pushing them toward Harbinger (mage)... and I don't like saying that.
    Thats one thing i find ridiculous... 3.5%... really? say a mob has 30,000 hp if you just spammed builders you would only get back 1050 hp.... is there a point in even wasting a spot on the soul tree for these abilities?? I'm hoping someone just mistakenly put a decimal point in and it should really be 35%! That would still only give you 10500, and thats if you just spam builders over and over.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorem View Post
    New farming spec is tempest cause of jolt
    Tried using tempest in dungoens but para just completly outdps'd it

    Didn't get to try BM in a raid setting spammed hard but oceanic times was like none going ( my bm pet macros were not working either) also bm for me was crazy power starved with no channel unless you use that enrage channel as a way to get your power back while increasing the raids dps? bm looks lke it needs alot of work still

    Hating the new Champ spec untill bladefurys made on a 4second cooldown
    Power starved unless you have cornered beast/flurry/ the tempest range one to use when low on power (thats why they last long its to make sure you've refilled your power)

    Para's back to sli dependent ~ ofcourse since it's been made the "single target" spec what they want us to only spec into this tree for single target dmg? yet they give us a no cd finisher that makes all our attacks AOE!... my reaping harvest was critting for 16k (imagine that with shifting blades :O ) which spread to multiple targets in the dungoen runs I did!

    making para for me the best spec for dps both aoe and st cause the champ spec sucks atm

    btw reaver is doing some great dmg people have been saying that it and a tank spec was farming better and faster then 51tempest builds, ofcourse they didn't have jolt which is such a epic self heal
    Everything is power starved, even with the power saving abilities. Im sure that will be addressed though, hence it being a beta.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Sharog's Avatar
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    LoL u guys, not sure if u realized by now that the lvl 60 version of any current spec build has atleast 3 more buttons in to them

    But have no FEAR, i g0t j00 back, Soon to be releaseD "War DeEps Big manly guide" upgrade from small son when ur lvl 60 in the next or the one after beta, fully optimized for max deeeps. Champ now have Single target, 3 target, 5 target and 8+ target rotations !.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragosani View Post
    Everything is power starved, even with the power saving abilities. Im sure that will be addressed though, hence it being a beta.
    no 51 para specs ive seen I can keep up a indefinite spree of attacks and never run out of power

    51 para, 8 rb and rest in tempest was the spec I used cause I wanted range finisher/attacks

    could keep 4k dps going forever in the dungoen runs I did and parsing on dummy for 5k and never ran out

    using rb power reduction (2nd tier) and channels it's easy to keep your power up

    P.s. jsut one question ~ people do realise they can macro with Shift right? that way you can techicaly halve your amount of buttons to press by using shift? just been wondering cause alot of the problems I see is people complaining aboutno cd's and yet we can still technicaly macro everything

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    LoL u guys, not sure if u realized by now that the lvl 60 version of any current spec build has atleast 3 more buttons in to them

    But have no FEAR, i g0t j00 back, Soon to be releaseD "War DeEps Big manly guide" upgrade from small son when ur lvl 60 in the next or the one after beta, fully optimized for max deeeps. Champ now have Single target, 3 target, 5 target and 8+ target rotations !.
    So what your effectively saying is any feedback we are giving right now outside of obviously broken abilities that should have been caught is pointless. If you can go ahead and re assure us that Champion at lvl 60 is fine, then go ahead or Reaver is not a nightmare of DOT control requiring a addon to managed dots on 6+ npcs pulls, then go ahead.

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