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Thread: Warden is not an icar replacement

  1. #1
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    Warden is not an icar replacement

    I tried to give it a fair shake. I even took all the dps boosting talents in the warden tree. Best dps I could muster as 51 warden was 1200 on the dummy. Currently on live my icar build pulls about 2500dps. Warden healing does seem really good but the dps portion touted does not seem very good at all. I would easily take the live icar version over the 51 warden version on beta.

    As a side note I am also sad cabicar is dead and the dps adjustments to 51 inquisitor seem pretty minimal. Overall I'm not impressed on the SL changes for Cleric and I may really need to consider main switching. Sad day.

  2. #2
    It replaced senticar, not inqcar

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Noriega View Post
    It replaced senticar, not inqcar
    ^ this

    Per Zinbik it should do more DPS and HPS as senticar, and it does this

    Inquisicar and Cabicar were in need of a swift death and they got one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noriega View Post
    It replaced senticar, not inqcar
    Ah my mistake. Where is all the dps in warden that Zibnik said would be there or is 1200 what they consider good healer dps? I thought I saw 50% of full dps as the benchmark which should put me around 1800ish if that is supposed to hold true.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dead2soon View Post
    Ah my mistake. Where is all the dps in warden that Zibnik said would be there or is 1200 what they consider good healer dps? I thought I saw 50% of full dps as the benchmark which should put me around 1800ish if that is supposed to hold true.
    I did about 1.5k DPS without really trying too hard on figuring out an optimal rotation, 1.8k wouldn't be too much of a stretch I don't believe. Inquisicar on live doesn't have much on the HPS potential of the beta version of Warden either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinnz View Post
    ^ this

    Per Zinbik it should do more DPS and HPS as senticar, and it does this

    Inquisicar and Cabicar were in need of a swift death and they got one.
    They did get a swift death and I guess a replacement is not coming. Sadly I guess I should start playing around with the other classes. You would think with the destruction of the hybrids the pure classes would have been brought up to par but that didn't happen either. For me SL for clerics just seems disappointing after this weekend.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dead2soon View Post
    Ah my mistake. Where is all the dps in warden that Zibnik said would be there or is 1200 what they consider good healer dps? I thought I saw 50% of full dps as the benchmark which should put me around 1800ish if that is supposed to hold true.
    I personally don't care for dpsing whilst healing with wardens (probably why I never liked senticar) but I haven't parsed over 1370 as warden using heal planar. But that's more than I did as senticar. I don't know where you got 50% more dps, but I'm sure someone will come up with a good rotation/spec to bump it up more

    I personally am not thrilled with the mandate of damage to maximize healing (yeah yeah yeah it's still 15% extra healing on a 10 sec timer on a stacking buff, sounds very mandated), but as a whole it warden out performs senticar and seems very viable as full warden and hybrided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelight View Post
    I did about 1.5k DPS without really trying too hard on figuring out an optimal rotation, 1.8k wouldn't be too much of a stretch I don't believe. Inquisicar on live doesn't have much on the HPS potential of the beta version of Warden either.
    I put a couple hours into seeing what dps I could come up with as warden and was disappointed with all combinations. Just spamming water jet alone was worth 1k. Mixing in anything else just didn't provide much of a boost. Overall it was a disheartening experience.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Elijah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noriega View Post
    I personally don't care for dpsing whilst healing with wardens (probably why I never liked senticar)
    /agree
    But the option to run dps while healing is not so bad at all, the overhealing in purifer goes in dps too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noriega View Post
    I personally don't care for dpsing whilst healing with wardens (probably why I never liked senticar) but I haven't parsed over 1370 as warden using heal planar. But that's more than I did as senticar. I don't know where you got 50% more dps, but I'm sure someone will come up with a good rotation/spec to bump it up more

    I personally am not thrilled with the mandate of damage to maximize healing (yeah yeah yeah it's still 15% extra healing on a 10 sec timer on a stacking buff, sounds very mandated), but as a whole it warden out performs senticar and seems very viable as full warden and hybrided.
    I never liked senticar either. My best options on live are inquisicar, cabiacar for raid heals and 51 puri for tank heals. Guess I'm not going to like SL much.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noriega View Post
    I personally don't care for dpsing whilst healing with wardens (probably why I never liked senticar) but I haven't parsed over 1370 as warden using heal planar. But that's more than I did as senticar. I don't know where you got 50% more dps, but I'm sure someone will come up with a good rotation/spec to bump it up more

    I personally am not thrilled with the mandate of damage to maximize healing (yeah yeah yeah it's still 15% extra healing on a 10 sec timer on a stacking buff, sounds very mandated), but as a whole it warden out performs senticar and seems very viable as full warden and hybrided.
    If I remember correctly 50% was the number Zibnik through out as the target dps potential for hybrids vs pure builds.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Elijah View Post
    /agree
    But the option to run dps while healing is not so bad at all, the overhealing in purifer goes in dps too
    The good part of this is if your progression you can add another healer and have them dps except when you need the extra healing. Its a good transitional move. It also gives wardens a reason to exist.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dead2soon View Post
    I put a couple hours into seeing what dps I could come up with as warden and was disappointed with all combinations. Just spamming water jet alone was worth 1k. Mixing in anything else just didn't provide much of a boost. Overall it was a disheartening experience.
    I'll post a rotation for it if I make it into another beta, don't remember what I was doing off hand.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merxion View Post
    The good part of this is if your progression you can add another healer and have them dps except when you need the extra healing. Its a good transitional move. It also gives wardens a reason to exist.
    Check! dont have think about that^^

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    From what I have seen running dungeons and some 10 mans, rogues seem to be able to put out as much healing as warden plus about 3x more dps then warden. We have been overthrown as the premier raid hybrid HPS/DPS raid healers. Unless things change drastically by release be prepared to be benched in favor of rogues for raid heals.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kliknik View Post
    From what I have seen running dungeons and some 10 mans, rogues seem to be able to put out as much healing as warden plus about 3x more dps then warden. We have been overthrown as the premier raid hybrid HPS/DPS raid healers. Unless things change drastically by release be prepared to be benched in favor of rogues for raid heals.
    I know a few guildies who will be ecstatic about this

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinnz View Post
    Inquisicar and Cabicar were in need of a swift death and they got one.
    And why is that? We had trade-offs going:

    1. You want crazy high ST healing? You have no DPS, healing soul.
    2. You want crazy high raid healing? You have less DPS. Senticar.
    3. You want crazy high dps? You have little to no healing, DPS soul.
    4. You want moderate ST DPS and decent healing? You have crappy DPS but good on-demand raid healing. Inquisicar.
    5. You want moderate AoE DPS and decent healing? You have decent AoE DPS and you need to figure out a way to get convictions for raid healing: Cabicar

    None was "the best." Each had a role. Each had trade-offs. Please, oh please, do explain why these two builds needed a swift death. In general, Chloros were favorable, and they will still probably do significantly more DPS. And Bards are now significantly better. I see no logical reasoning as to why two of the best builds in the game were removed with nothing to replace them.

    [Edit]

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    4. You want moderate ST DPS and decent healing? You have crappy DPS but good on-demand raid healing. Inquisicar.
    5. You want moderate AoE DPS and decent healing? You have decent AoE DPS and you need to figure out a way to get convictions for raid healing: Cabicar
    These were the problems.

    4. It wasn't the best ST DPS but due to DoL it could provide near-Senticar levels of spike raid healing (just no Healing Communion ability). All this while naturally building convictions in the top DPS rotation.

    5. Cabicar does not even need convictions. It was broken because of Reparation/Righteous Mandate, and it was far more than decent AoE DPS (not that AoE DPS matters once you break 10k)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinnz View Post
    These were the problems.

    4. It wasn't the best ST DPS but due to DoL it could provide near-Senticar levels of spike raid healing (just no Healing Communion ability). All this while naturally building convictions in the top DPS rotation.
    But not senticar level consistent healing or ST healing. Sounds like a trade off.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinnz View Post
    5. Cabicar does not even need convictions. It was broken because of Reparation/Righteous Mandate, and it was far more than decent AoE DPS (not that AoE DPS matters once you break 10k)
    And if they let Harbinger/Chloro go live the way it is?
    <Special Olympics> Recruiting Mage Pets (with or without their owner) to replace our Cleric DPS.

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