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  1. #1
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    After one beta weekend down...

    I've been playing a cleric in Rift for almost 2 years. I don't have any alt's. All I ever wanted to play was cleric, and due to the versatility of the cleric souls, it was all I ever needed to play. So as with everyone else in Rift I was excited to see all the new stuff coming in 2.0...especially what new soul they would give us. I anticipated the new soul with a good bit of apprehension. I mean, we could already tank, dps, or heal as good or better than any other class so what could a new soul possibly provide. I figured it would be some sort of support role.

    Man was I wrong...sorta...

    When I first got in, like everyone else, I instantly looked at the defiler soul. Yep it's a semi-support soul, and I started thinking about ways I could incorporate it into roles, but then I started making my roles. That is when I noticed that we didn't get one new soul...we got EIGHT new souls. The only thing left in the old souls that was the same were the Purge and Cleanses. Ugh. I spent the first hour to two hours in the game simply trying to figure out what the many soul changes were...and they were numerous. It's going to take several hours of testing to tweak the new roles.

    Once I started playing, I found that warden healing for the new dungeon is...WOW! (no pun intended). Purifier MT healing is still super powerful...but it is still only good for MT healing unless your spamming the aoe shield. While our dps is lacking compared to the other classes, I still had no trouble soloing PvE world content (except those lvl 51 elite invasions...those things hit like a MAC truck). Icar is dead...and that sucks. Like most clerics, I loved the versatility of the many different icar specs. I didn't get a chance ot tank, but the soul is there. Next Beta I will put it to the test to see how it does.

    Right now, I see bard heals out raid healing us, all the other classes out-dps us...so I'm curious to see where we will fit into the new raid schemes. The Defiler seems like a possible support spot for some encounters...we'll see.

    On Sunday night, I logged back in to the Live servers for Raid night, and I actually found myself dissappointed because I was relieved to be back into the souls I new and loved. I actually enjoyed going back to Rift 1.x. I'm sure with time I will come to enjoy Rift 2.0 as well, and further Beta time will give me a chance to fine tune the roles into something I want, but there is no doubt that Rift 2.0 is a completely different game for clerics.

    WTB A New Role Slot!

  2. #2
    I too was overwhelmed when I logged in, but that was expected cuz I read the changes before I did. However playing with different specs and lots of dummy parses I was liking almost all the changes. None of the rotations were too complicated after a few parses. There seemed to be a lot of options that pull similar dps except the hard casting bod specs that are far ahead, but hopeful won't go live like that. Defiler took me a day to convince myself to try... and I was glad I did.. and started to see it's potential and I couldn't stop playing it. Seems like it will be useful, but don't think I'd use it to solo heal new dungeons or anything, but it's a nice tank support/ dps hybrid that's a nice change from all the raid healing/dps hybrids.

    Overall dps among the classes needs tweaks but I'm really looking forward to SL

  3. #3
    I'm kinda sad that our DPS is as low as it is currently on beta. They effectively removed -icars and set up the souls so we can't get massive raid heals and dps at the same time, so why is our DPS still the worst out of the 4 callings? not to mention some of our rotations are more difficult than mages now

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Redcrux View Post
    I'm kinda sad that our DPS is as low as it is currently on beta. They effectively removed -icars and set up the souls so we can't get massive raid heals and dps at the same time, so why is our DPS still the worst out of the 4 callings? not to mention some of our rotations are more difficult than mages now
    Tuning isn't set I wouldn't get too worried about it. If we are still in this place a week out from release...then yeah I would worry. I do believe they are going to nerf the 5k+ dps specs, especially the easy rotation ones

    Our high DPS spec is an easy rotation but it will suffer from pushback horribly unless we get an anti-pushback talent that we really need.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merxion View Post
    I'm not so disappointed with the removal of icar specs. Who cares about them when you can do 12-1500 dps as a warden and still out heal the icar on raid heals.

    Defiler though it could be so much fun but so much work for such little damage.

    What Specc did you mean with "our high dps specc"?
    While you're talking about the pushback there is just Inquisitor coming to my mind...
    But I think the best DPS specc is Druid...
    Until they nerfed it in the Beta-Event Saturday night.
    That pushes me back from 4,2k selfbuffed to 3,7k selfbuffed on the dummies.
    While Rogues are still putting out 5k ST on the dummies and Warris are still trolling around with 7-8k ST dps...

    As it is right now Rogue might be the new Cleric in game...
    Rogues are able to DPS, Heal (just MT-Heal is left for the Chloro and Cleric's), Support and Tank.
    While Clerics are able to MT Heal and absorb... The other specc's are just not competitive with other classes.

    Please Zinbik, make me love playing my Cleric again...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Inquii View Post
    What Specc did you mean with "our high dps specc"?
    While you're talking about the pushback there is just Inquisitor coming to my mind...
    But I think the best DPS specc is Druid...
    Until they nerfed it in the Beta-Event Saturday night.
    That pushes me back from 4,2k selfbuffed to 3,7k selfbuffed on the dummies.
    While Rogues are still putting out 5k ST on the dummies and Warris are still trolling around with 7-8k ST dps...

    As it is right now Rogue might be the new Cleric in game...
    Rogues are able to DPS, Heal (just MT-Heal is left for the Chloro and Cleric's), Support and Tank.
    While Clerics are able to MT Heal and absorb... The other specc's are just not competitive with other classes.

    Please Zinbik, make me love playing my Cleric again...
    I think you meant to quote me...but our top DPS spec I pulled 4.7k on over 5 mins (flaring glyph as only consumable) on a debuffless dummy and I am not even max geared, ID geared but no relic weapon or anything. Its 42 inq 22 defiler 2 cab.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelight View Post
    I think you meant to quote me...but our top DPS spec I pulled 4.7k on over 5 mins (flaring glyph as only consumable) on a debuffless dummy and I am not even max geared, ID geared but no relic weapon or anything. Its 42 inq 22 defiler 2 cab.
    That spec is going to struggle to hit anything like those numbers in raids with movement and damage push back.

    Interestingly enough after playing with that spec I tried an even simpler version to give myself a baseline of just spamming the Fanactism, Sanction Heretic, Bolt of Depravity macro and it was hitting harder than the correct cycle with the DOTS.

    But the dummy was not clean for my testing (Want to buy Dummies in my dimension for true testing).

    I like the direction Zibnik has taken things - quite a lot.

    I have to get my head around managing the new druid with no macro's as there is a lot of keys now and a lot of counters to watch on your target. I haven't quite made up my mind yet as to whether that is to far the other way from where it was at.

    I also hope that more raid content is like the new dungeon - less faceroll on over powering the encounter and more reliance on playing the mechanics. It was awesome to have a normal dungeon with so many wipe mechanics.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by alittlebirdie View Post
    That spec is going to struggle to hit anything like those numbers in raids with movement and damage push back.
    I agree with this, mentioned in a previous post that if we don't get anti-pushback talents the spec will fail in raids, it would probably still be top even with movement granted its not constant movements.

  9. #9
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    I found myself enjoying beta less and less the more I played. Icar specs were the only style of healing I enjoyed, and while I thought it was awkward to have it come from our tanking soul, I certainly wanted it to come from somewhere. Seeing it being effectively dead makes me regret springing for the year-long sub.

    I can't even take comfort in the Inquistor changes. The new L&DC mechanic is boring and discourages weaving in other spells. Not that it matters, since apparently we are back to BoD spamming anyway.

    The inability to macro anything makes skillbars a mess.

    Looks like I better bust my butt getting a new main ready for SL, or pray for major changes in the next month. Very sad. I had been so excited for SL before this weekend.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacchus169 View Post
    I can't even take comfort in the Inquistor changes. The new L&DC mechanic is boring and discourages weaving in other spells. Not that it matters, since apparently we are back to BoD spamming anyway.
    Failing to understand how something not RNG related = boring. I guess it is boring when your DPS isn't reliant on an RNG proc. I do wish it was any ST spell that added to the stacks though because you are right it does not encourage weaving other spells in and I wish that part did change.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelight View Post
    Tuning isn't set I wouldn't get too worried about it. If we are still in this place a week out from release...then yeah I would worry. I do believe they are going to nerf the 5k+ dps specs, especially the easy rotation ones
    Quote Originally Posted by xBehemothx View Post
    I am not worried about the dps, its still in testing, and they have weeks to change it.
    Don't hold your breath, at this point, small tweaks and and bug fixes aren't going to make up for the gap in dps.

    unless you've forgotten how in almost every patch cycle for the past year and a half so far it has gone something like this:

    PTS/beta testing > clerics identify that we are balanced too weak > "there's no way it can go live like this" > patch goes live exactly how it is > 2 or 3 months later clerics are hotfix buffed but still weaker than all the other classes

    main case in point: justicars, have been through multiple rounds of fixes and we STILL take considerably more damage and have considerably lower HP than warriors and rogues. It's better than it was before but no matter what happens in test phase, clerics are always underpowered.


    now that every class has 3 roles, you can't claim that clerics are balanced with "jack of all trades, master of none" because every other class gets to be "master of all trades"

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Redcrux View Post
    Don't hold your breath, at this point, small tweaks and and bug fixes aren't going to make up for the gap in dps.

    unless you've forgotten how in almost every patch cycle for the past year and a half so far it has gone something like this:

    PTS/beta testing > clerics identify that we are balanced too weak > "there's no way it can go live like this" > patch goes live exactly how it is > 2 or 3 months later clerics are hotfix buffed but still weaker than all the other classes

    main case in point: justicars, have been through multiple rounds of fixes and we STILL take considerably more damage and have considerably lower HP than warriors and rogues. It's better than it was before but no matter what happens in test phase, clerics are always underpowered.


    now that every class has 3 roles, you can't claim that clerics are balanced with "jack of all trades, master of none" because every other class gets to be "master of all trades"
    I understand your point but when they come out and say on these forums their goal is more of a DPS balance, kind of don't have a choice except believe it until proven other wise. I don't agree with your stance on Justicar tanks, we take more pure physical damage than Warriors but not non-physical...we certainly don't take more damage than rogue tanks...go compare rogue damage on Ituziel to Clerics, Clerics are much more stable.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcrux View Post
    Don't hold your breath, at this point, small tweaks and and bug fixes aren't going to make up for the gap in dps.

    unless you've forgotten how in almost every patch cycle for the past year and a half so far it has gone something like this:

    PTS/beta testing > clerics identify that we are balanced too weak > "there's no way it can go live like this" > patch goes live exactly how it is > 2 or 3 months later clerics are hotfix buffed but still weaker than all the other classes

    main case in point: justicars, have been through multiple rounds of fixes and we STILL take considerably more damage and have considerably lower HP than warriors and rogues. It's better than it was before but no matter what happens in test phase, clerics are always underpowered.


    now that every class has 3 roles, you can't claim that clerics are balanced with "jack of all trades, master of none" because every other class gets to be "master of all trades"
    I have to agree with red here. Trion has had a horrible track record of listening to the cleric community with regards to DPS.

    I didn't see hardly any difference between Inq on beta and Inq on live. Best I could pull out of Inq was about 2800 over a 5 minute parse on a clean dummy with a 51 inq and like 15 in defilier, similarly geared players in my guild from other callings are easily pulling at least 50% more then this in there dps builds.

    Also don't get me started on Druid. I pumped 51 points into druid, and 15 into shaman, fired up Karuuls (which was lite like a gd x-mas tree the whole time) and the best i could pull out of it was about 2600 (all i had for a 2 hander was beacon so it was less then optimal) then i had to deal with carpal-tunnel for about 4 hours after a 5 minute parse.

    Then there's the issue of taking out our Icar builds. Now I understand why they wanted to get rid of it and that's all fine, but I was under the impression that Defiler or warden was going to fill the niche of hybrid HPS/DPS but this is not the case.

    Defiler seems very weak in both healing and DPS, the stacking healing ability seems to heal for far to less and the ability that burns those stacks is pretty weak as well. The links just don't seem like there really absorbing a whole lot of damage and there is very little raid healing utility in the soul. Never not once when I was playing defiler did I feel I was taking any amount of damage from the links that would even consider having to use even one of myriad of self healing abilities.

    Warden I didn't get a chance to play, but we had another cleric playing that and a bard/tact when we made a quick 6 man run through RoTP (only made it past bearhaust then it was time for bed). The bard did about equivalent healing as the warden but was able to pump out about 3x the dps then the warden.

    All in all imo the changes to our dps souls put us right were we are on live now just with a different play style, while all the other callings are reporting huge dps increases. Our healing is about were it was with the exception of loosing our HPS/DPS hybrid. Other callings are now able to fill the DPS/HPS hybrid niche leaving clerics out in the cold without a suitable replacement. I would say 1.11 cleric changes have a long ways to go and in fact we may be better off with what we have on live now. THese changes feel like there going completely in the wrong direction. Like many others have said I to feel foolish for buying a years sub.

  14. #14
    I am still trying to absorb all the new information this weekend provided and come to some internal consensus how I feel about it all. I will only speak for myself when I say that there are some things I am excited about, and some things I will miss terribly.

    That said, I suspect I am not the only one that will find peace with how the new cleric *functions* in terms of itself, but gets a horrible horrible sinking feeling when trying to consider how it fits into the larger picture.

    While some souls like Inquisitor have their DPS up significantly from Live (which I was initially very happy about), unless other classes get some very dramatic DPS nerfs very soon, our DPS is going to be useless and unwanted at raids when we could be replaced by someone who could easily double what we could do.

    I've been through plenty of betas over a lot of years, and while I've seen a whole lot of tweaks and fixes over the final 6 weeks before a release, dramatic changes are something I've yet to see, so I don't share the optimism that some here seem to have that everything is gonna be balanced to our liking before the live release.

    I sincerely hope Trion proves my fears unfounded on this count and gives me more reason to be optimistic in the future.

    While I need more time with both Warden and Purifier yet to come to a better understanding of each class, both are something I can be happy with. Warden especially. Purifier looks really strong but we'd rarely ever use more than one at a raid. ...the same with Tanks, while I put together a tank build and at least from a stats perspective I had to smile, I haven't gotten to see it in action yet...however realistically speaking, at least in my guild, cleric tanks get limited use at best....again, more than one at any given raid would surprise me.

    One thing I am still unclear about - do Warden HoTs stack with other Wardens' HoTs nowadays? with the reemergence of the Warden as a premier healing class, if our hots don't stack with other warden hots, this will irritate me all over again even though Healing Effusion and other direct heals will still clearly stack.

    For all the talk about how -icars needed to die, the -icar spec gave DPS/Icar hybrids a valuable spot at raids, allowing respectable DPS to switch to respectable AE healing on a dime. While a DPS/Icar hyrbid wasn't top of the class at either, the ability to do both from the same spec gave us a place when we were not tanking or pure healing.

    I used to solo as an -icar, but now Defiler will fill that slot nicely. Defiler could use a DPS bump, particularly vs single target (although I can see how it is complicated to raise single target DPS without messing with multi-target DPS too much with Defiler)...but as a solo soul, it is enjoyable and has enough flexibility to be viable. I can't see it as a raiding soul however. I know plenty of folks are trying to find ways to squeeze it into a raiding build, but I really just don't see it.

    I'm starting to ramble, but I'll end with this:

    With the death of the -icar, if our DPS isn't well and truly on par with every other classes DPS, it is going to be a very very discouraging time to be a cleric. Particularly a raiding cleric.

    Please give me reason in the next few weeks to be optimistic about the future of Clerics in Rift. I want to feel good about being a cleric again. I want people to look at Rift and *want* to play a cleric.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Isaiah Reece View Post

    I've been through plenty of betas over a lot of years, and while I've seen a whole lot of tweaks and fixes over the final 6 weeks before a release, dramatic changes are something I've yet to see, so I don't share the optimism that some here seem to have that everything is gonna be balanced to our liking before the live release.

    Lol clerics hag major sweeping changes in just about every beta week during rifts initial beta. So i wouldnt worry about that.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Elijah's Avatar
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    My personal Feedback to the Cleric Souls:

    Defiler: Very fun soul at all, have played him mostly in instances as a healer or in hunting rifts and instand adventues as a subsoul for more dmg, dot`s and the beacon.
    Have started a new Character which i would level as a Defiler and iam very curious how he will be in the first levels.
    The class base idea is very interesting hope he will not change so much at all

    Purifer: My first healing Soul, i love him <3, when i get level 50, i have played him all the time through all raids as the tankhealer, any i love the changes he will get, absorb, absorb, absorb its so amazing
    The only thing i dont understand is, why the overheal go out in damage not anymore in group heal, but thats ok, i have take a warden as a subsoul to manage the group heal with the full purifer.
    iam so curious how he will be at the higher level and at last at level 60 *cant wait*

    Warden: Yes, the warden have produced the wow effect on me, so much group heal and a nice dps, if needed, have played him most in exodus and the last boss is no problem with a full warden. (at ID gear), will test him more at the next time i can play the char.

    Inquisitor: I have played him in a level spec, it makes a lot of fun with the beacon from the defiler, set up the beacon, dot on mobs around a bit souldrain, a bit bound fate and thats it, makes a lot of fun to me and will be my leveling soul on release i guess.

    Yeah i could not test the other souls, but i hope there will be some time to do that

    At all i can say, big thanks for the healing soul changes, i like them all and cant wait to play them again !!!

    I know all that can change again but its a very good direction so far.
    (Maybe i will write more these days, have to work up all the changes and new informations in my head :P)

    Best wishes!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Inquii View Post
    But I think the best DPS specc is Druid...
    Until they nerfed it in the Beta-Event Saturday night.
    That pushes me back from 4,2k selfbuffed to 3,7k selfbuffed on the dummies.
    While Rogues are still putting out 5k ST on the dummies and Warris are still trolling around with 7-8k ST dps...

    As it is right now Rogue might be the new Cleric in game...
    Rogues are able to DPS, Heal (just MT-Heal is left for the Chloro and Cleric's), Support and Tank.
    While Clerics are able to MT Heal and absorb... The other specc's are just not competitive with other classes.

    Please Zinbik, make me love playing my Cleric again...
    Druid is what I got parsing the best for me right around 3.1kish i'm hitting a respectable 2.6k with inquisitor. My biggest issue with druid is arthritis managing 7 buttons to hit 3.1k is pretty brutal.

    As far as Rogues go more power to them they got the best soul upgrade in the game. I just want Zinbik to actually play the roles and spend the time to balance the numbers because right now they dont cut it at our gear levels. Maybe once we are 60 it will all make sense but somewhere over the rainbow doesn't keep subscriptions. He's got roughly a month to sort it out. I'd rather see a buggy instance with working roles then vice versa.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Redcrux View Post
    I'm kinda sad that our DPS is as low as it is currently on beta. They effectively removed -icars and set up the souls so we can't get massive raid heals and dps at the same time, so why is our DPS still the worst out of the 4 callings? not to mention some of our rotations are more difficult than mages now
    I'm not so disappointed with the removal of icar specs. Who cares about them when you can do 12-1500 dps as a warden and still out heal the icar on raid heals.

    Defiler though it could be so much fun but so much work for such little damage.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Merxion View Post
    I'm not so disappointed with the removal of icar specs. Who cares about them when you can do 12-1500 dps as a warden and still out heal the icar on raid heals.

    Defiler though it could be so much fun but so much work for such little damage.
    I think the death of icars was a good thing, at least the cleric community as a whole didn't like the idea that our tank soul was our best healing spec.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelight View Post
    I think the death of icars was a good thing, at least the cleric community as a whole didn't like the idea that our tank soul was our best healing spec.
    I agree icars needed to go.

    However I don't completely agree with the depth of the changes. Justicar is still touted as a "tank/heal hybrid soul" but there is no respectable healing spec that will include it now.

    I'm going to try out Sent/Icar to see if it can work as a decent tank/raid heal hybrid but I'm guessing pure Sent with some points in Warden will work better anyway.

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