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Thread: Get rid of add-ons

  1. #1
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    Get rid of add-ons

    If people want to really separate the elite from the average, leave macros... Get rid of add-ons. They help even more. Tell you when your buffs fall, when an enemies fall, when a mob is due to cast a particular spell etc... Way more useful than macros.

    I use macros yes. Add-ons no. It feels like cheating

    Irie

  2. #2
    Senior Member Noshei's Avatar
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    I'm assuming this is in response to the fact that you can't macro as many abilities now. I for one am I huge fan of this and feel it will force player to actually pay attention to what they are doing.

    As for addons, if you feel like they are cheating, then whatever. Thats your choice of how to feel. But frankly addons make the game far more customizable and fill gaps that trion doesnt have time to fill them selves.

    I'm sure that if Trion implemented some of the things that addons do directly into the game you wouldn't call it cheating, but sure call addons cheating if you want, it is your loss to not sure them.

  3. #3
    Cool while we are at it get rid of complicated boss fights also.

  4. #4
    Add-ons won't be removed, there would be too much of an uproar. I know I'd quit the game if they did.

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    Noshei probably hit the nail on the head actually. Someone has a 2 button spam build tht is now a whopping 3 button spam build and they are bent about it.

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    Junior Member Zazen's Avatar
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    I'd prefer we just get rid of people like the OP.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    I'd prefer we just get rid of people like the OP.
    Got me worried with the macro changes, read all the post scratched my head tested it. Re-read everything and talked with some friends. So much angst, when I finally got that it was not a change to the macro system but that you might have a few more buttons to press, well my jaw just dropped.


    Final word. If its useful to macro something cool, I will macro it. If it isnt and I have ten or more buttons in my rotation that is cool too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Noshei probably hit the nail on the head actually. Someone has a 2 button spam build tht is now a whopping 3 button spam build and they are bent about it.
    Obviously you haven't checked out the warrior section. Take a look at the Reaver tank. At least 15 buttons which cannot be macro'd. Makes the mage rotation look easy and all the while in melee.

    I agree with the OP let skill reign. Remove all addons, its what everyone says they want. A skill based game.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Elijah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Noshei probably hit the nail on the head actually. Someone has a 2 button spam build tht is now a whopping 3 button spam build and they are bent about it.
    currently some ppl at the raid can make huge dps and watching tv at the same time through the usage of macros, so it will be nice with the changes, people have to bring the focus up to the game.

    i like it
    Any addons, mh i dont use really much addons, just the option to see combat rez timers of kbm on raids and sometimes a ingame parsing plugin, if i am to lazy to put act on^^

  10. #10
    DO not make addon authors feel like unwanted guests, they're the damn reason Rift has any form of usable unit frames, stock ones provide little to no info and just waste space massively!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    DO not make addon authors feel like unwanted guests, they're the damn reason Rift has any form of usable unit frames, stock ones provide little to no info and just waste space massively!
    Sorry, they should feel no more welcome than those which purchased SL under the illusion it would be similar to the current game. Plus add ons detract from the skill so many are arguing for.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tufelhunden View Post
    Sorry, they should feel no more welcome than those which purchased SL under the illusion it would be similar to the current game. Plus add ons detract from the skill so many are arguing for.
    If having more info in a condensed space for me to to see what buffs/debuffs I have is REDUCING my skill, then I beg to disagree.

    UI design should always aim into having as much information as is needed to perform task X, in the most condensed format possible without ANY extra information.

    Stock unit frames/buff bars lack the ability to limit buffs/debuffs, have a hard-to-read timers and are not able to be customized to any extent. Just check multitude of videos of people tanking in raids with ahving to have the other tank on focus with their buff bars visible to just see one debuff and when to swap.

    In fact, here's a screenshot:
    http://i.imgur.com/6ePrq.jpg
    Screenshot taken from "Ituziel vs. Blackout" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNSsUQfb_9M

    On the screenshot, the debuff on the other tank is at the bottom of the list, which is bouncing up and down. This in no way, shape or form makes the unit frames intuitive, helpful or easy to use.

    This all can be replaced with KBM Tank Swap, an addon which makes the need to watch a bouncing buff bar of an another person while tanking a boss with positional requirements fully irrelevant:
    http://i.imgur.com/x5fLW.png
    Image courtesy of Snarty at http://www.riftui.com/downloads/info...gBossMods.html
    This addon takes the existing data and makes it easier to read and easier to react to as you always know where in your screen the information is made available. A bouncing list of debuffs forces you to search for the relevant info manually every single time, causing focus to shift from your actual job into something which resembles a poorly-thought google search; you know the info is there but you just can't find it on the first go.

    Having addons streamlining the information available does not make you a worse play, in fact I'd argue that being able to set up an UI which has all the information you need available faster, easier and more effectively has already made you a better player.

    And this could not have happened without the addon developers who put their OWN FREE TIME to create and maintain the addons. I have not yet heard anyone becoming rich with Rift addons, but I'm fully ready to acknowledge that they do work which needs to be done and with less thanks and gratitude than an average roadkill opossum.

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    This isn't even a thread about removing addons. It is just people being mad about the rotations being less macro friendly. Nothing to see here

  14. #14
    Actually it isn't just a silly thread. Here is actually a point.
    All those people in favor for no macros means skill seem to think it seperated average and good players. Yet in reality a lot of these skills involve keeping buffs and debuffs up, all of which is dealt with using an Add On.
    The guy with 2 main macros and 3 skills applied to keep buffs/debuffs up using no Add On is no less a player than the guy using the new reaver with 13 buttons being told exactly when he needs to reuse a skill.
    The guy who has to pay attention to his timings as well as pay attention to mob mechanics is using more skill than the one using an Add On telling you ability X is about to be cast by the boss in Y seconds.

    Add Ons are far more easy mode than skills being macro'd. Yet players seem to think they are fine yet macros are not. If you want to be an elitist snob then go all the way, not half assed and supporting change that is in line with your opinion.

    Me, I like macros, it lets players who are not as good as others stay at least at a reasonable performance lvl (even now there can be huge differences in dps between 2 players with the same builds and gear due to skill with timings etc.).
    I like add ons because again it helps players who find it hard to learn fights and pay attention to small details play at a decent level.

    So what is in the game helps those not that good and also can benefit those that are good (add ons in particular). I don't need either, I don't use many add ons aside from dps meter, so if they take add ons out it doesn't bother me or reduce my capability. If they remove macros I will also still play just as well but I won't enjoy it as much.

    If your arguement is to make a seperation between good and average players, then so be it, but go all the way with it and lose both things that help people otherwise your arguement is very one sided and contradicts itself

  15. #15
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    Honestly, of all the things to ***** about...

    Listen. We have very limited macro space in this game... when we started playing there weren't addons, and I made a mouseover macro for every single heal / healy cd I had. A macro a spell, just to add a little "@mouseover" to the spell's name... and let me tell you, clerics have a ridiculous amount of stuff they want to mouseover cast. So, my macro UI quickly filled up and became a monster in which finding anything to update/fiddle with was really annoying.

    Then came raidframes addons. I'm currently using ClickBoxHealer, that lets me assign spells to comboclicks (like left click is Soothing Stream, right click is Healer's Covenant, shift + left click is Healing Invocation and so on). Finally, my macro slots are manageable again, and my bars are a lot less cluttered

    I honestly would be *extremely* annoyed if I had to be back to have a darn macro for every single healing spell I have, and I like my bars clean, thank you very much -_-

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Snags View Post
    Honestly, of all the things to ***** about...


    Then came raidframes addons. I'm currently using ClickBoxHealer, that lets me assign spells to comboclicks (like left click is Soothing Stream, right click is Healer's Covenant, shift + left click is Healing Invocation and so on). Finally, my macro slots are manageable again, and my bars are a lot less cluttered

    I honestly would be *extremely* annoyed if I had to be back to have a darn macro for every single healing spell I have, and I like my bars clean, thank you very much -_-
    I like my clean bars, now they are full of a bunch of abilities that really could just be macro'd. And here is the issue, you have used an add on to make things more manageable and keep a clean hotbar. You feel this is fine, as do I. But macros do a similar thing, yet people believe it is good to remove them to seperate good players from the masses yet Add Ons are perfectly fine to stay - as if these don't make things easier.

    I don't understand people's desire to make other people's playtime harder. It may be my ego talking but I believe myself as a darn good player and I don't feel the need for changing things so that I am even better than average Joe, I am all for things that make the game enjoyable and at least allow them to stay in the same league as Better players even if it means they are in the bottom half at least they are there.

    PvP aside, when did MMOs turn so competitive amongst players on the same side? It used to be about making yourself as good as you can be and helping others to be better, now people seem to focus on making sure they are better than everyone else and that it is clearly known. Was this mentality added in a WoW patch or something? Because I have to admit it tends to be mostly those players that like to bang on about separating the playerbase between those that can and those that cannot

  17. #17
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    WoW invented competition .

    I dont care if they remove addons, but isn't it silly to make a thread with the agenda that, i lost my macros, so now you have to lose the addons ?

    I agree that both addons and macros makes the game easiere to play. Some restrictions to both macros and addons is ideal imo. How bad is it really with rotations btw. I only played around with inq,defiler and sentinel, and none of these seemed out of control.

  18. #18
    The thread was a bit petty for sure, but it does actually have a point.
    As for how bad the rotations are, depends on class, but the reaver has a hell of a pong list of skills to use and maintain. It isn't very hard to do, it is just irritating. Without add ons you could argue it takes some more skill to make sure dots don't drop but with them it's easy as you like, but it means a very clogged up hotbar and a constant cycling - if you have played a bard on live or heard Guildies complaining about how boring it is, well that's pretty much what it is like, certainly for reaver.

    The reality is, on live using macros, getting the max dps out of the paragon and champ builds is far more challenging and player skill dependant than what he reaver is in beta, sure more buttons are being pressed, but with para and champ on live it was all about your timings and judging when or when not to use skills all while dealing with flights mechanics. Even with the changes those timings are the key to your build, the fact you now press a tonne more buttons isn't really relevant.

  19. #19
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    Thank you Asteldian. You put it much more eloquently than I. I am just pointing out the add-ons (at least some) are more at least as powerful as the use of macros. Knowing a spell/mechanic is about to be cast is very powerful. Full use of macros now does not allow a player to play his part to the fullest as it is. Truly elite player not using macros are still the ones who are the best currently. They are still the ones who clear the difficult content long before the less skilled, macro using ones.

    If someone wants to be elitist, then the best player would be those with the skill to use neither. That is my basic point. That elite players rely more on add-ons than macros anyway. So removing them would really separate the men from the boys (so to speak)

  20. #20
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Tufelhunden View Post
    Obviously you haven't checked out the warrior section. Take a look at the Reaver tank. At least 15 buttons which cannot be macro'd. Makes the mage rotation look easy and all the while in melee.

    I agree with the OP let skill reign. Remove all addons, its what everyone says they want. A skill based game.
    Maybe they do not intend for all of those abilities to be used. I know as a fact that the devs already have what they consider optimized builds and rotations to go with them (I am not allowed to copy PMs or I would). So maybe you are staring at 15 buttons for a build that the devs do not intend. I could come up with a Bladedancer, NB, Sin build that would have about as many buttons to hit and I would do okay dps if I had that many fingere BUT if I look around the devs probably have a build in mind that is as least as good with fewer buttons.

    The two edged sword in this game is that you could always, and still can, come up with builds that require more subjective skill. I say more subjective skill because i know as many people that say BladeDancer is easier than Sin because you just have to constantly hit different buttons (little is macroable) and Sin is too hard because you have to track 3 DoTs minimum as say the Sin is actually easier. Tomāto, tomāto.

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