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Thread: Stormcaller Feedback

  1. #1
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    Stormcaller Feedback

    Hi! I'd like to ask why havent passive global cooldown for the Stormcaller soul?
    The pyro and the warlock have passive global cooldown. The Stromcaller have active for 15 sec with 1 min cd.
    Please do a passive 1 sec global cooldown for Stormcaller too.

  2. #2
    And give it a damn range boost and some ACTUAL damage in pvp...

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    The main probleme for the global cooldown here is cloudburst. It would be very strong if you got the 1sec cooldown all the time. I don't know what effect this would have for PVP. For PVE it MAYBE makes some SC combinations comparable to the Pyro or the Warlock.

    To the other points of the SC:

    The new soul is just on AOE. That is fine to me. I don't know how the last root spells work but the soul is going to make a lot of monsters cry.

    Lightning burst: I think 10% more damage per stake of electrified is a little bit low. I think 20% sould be better. Otherwise this spell would not often used, if at all.

    The SC, I guess, will not often be played in PVP compared to the Sabo and the Cabalist due to the range and the 7,5sec time till your electrified is up. But I think in raids and dungeons he will be nice to play.

  4. #4
    Absolutely the stormcaller has always been quite PvE viable but im really trying to give mages as many viable pvp specs and possible and a few simple changes wouldn't really affect PvE viability any less (infact if a class is good at PvP at its respective focus then its probably going to be great for PvE too)

    Plus the accessibility and the skill cap required the play stormcaller is pretty high so its damage is totally unjustifiable right now.

  5. #5
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    SC skill dmg has to be changed.

    I did some testing on Tempest Bay Improved Practice Dummies - 6 dummies with large dmg reduction. 51 SC, 5 Harb, 10 Chloro

    5 elec stacks, FS on, 2395 SP

    Lightning Field - 11-12k total dmg

    Storm Surge - 4300

    New 51 talent AOE spell Storm Surge is totally useless. It`s has a 30 sec cd, 1.5 cast time, 25 m range, gtaoe, removes all stacks and does 3 times less dmg than Lighting Field that is instacast, no cd, 30m, targeted AOE which removes 3 stacks only so you can cast it again for extra dmg.

    Storm Surge needs a significant dmg boost. And it needs to be huge to make this spell worth casting.

    Another test - 5 elec stacks, FS off, 2395 SP

    Hailstorm - 9300 total dmg
    Lightning Strom - 13k
    Eye of the Storm - 6500
    Lighting Burst - 2600-3100 (total dmg on 6 dummies)

    Lighting Burst is totally useless - both as ST and AOE spell. It does very little AOE dmg while removing all stacks from the target. It`s ST dmg is also very low. With 5x elec, Ice Shear and SF on it does 851 dmg non-crit while cloudburst does 511. Last tick of Raging Storm did a 860 non-crit dmg in the same conditions (SF, 5x elec, IS). For a spell that removes all stacks and has a terrible 2s cast time the dmg is just way too low. A 50 % per elec stack needs to be to restored.

    Eye of the Strom dmg is way to low if you compare it to HS or LS. EoTS is a 51 root ability that will eat your full charge bar and has a 1m cd. HS and LS have 30s cd and can be acquired will less point investment. On Live EoTS his much harder than LS and HS so it should be the same in Strom Legion.

    SC dmg is still quite bad in PvP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virulent View Post
    Absolutely the stormcaller has always been quite PvE viable but im really trying to give mages as many viable pvp specs and possible and a few simple changes wouldn't really affect PvE viability any less (infact if a class is good at PvP at its respective focus then its probably going to be great for PvE too)

    Plus the accessibility and the skill cap required the play stormcaller is pretty high so its damage is totally unjustifiable right now.
    51/15 SC/Archmage was a beast in mass PvP in 1.6. I also played SC/Dom a lot pre 1.6. Removal of Archmage PvP soul killed SC in PVP (and also 51 Lock and few other specs).

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    Either Ride the Wind or Storm Guard should consume charge; not both, as they are both necessary for PvP survival.

    Likewise, Eye of the Storm should not consume charge, as it is already on a longish cooldown and only lasts ten seconds.

    I do appreciate that Trion took suggestions myself and others made on the live forums months ago, and gave Stormcaller its own armor and gave it built-in resists (although I believe I only asked for water and air resists, so resists to everything is nice .

    Hopefully Stormcaller will be great AOE again, although it seems there are other good AOE builds available, like:

    Necrolock, with corpse explosion + corpse pile, grave rot, devouring shadows, and the ability to spread several dots to all the nearby enemies.

    Pyromentalist, dropping a Burning Ground with reduced cast time and then channeling Fire Storm.

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    Good post Lokken. I've never understood the purpose of Lightning Burst, and your post reinforces with actual numbers what I've experienced myself. I just don't use Lightning burst. Better off to keep the electrified on the mob. Good research on Storm Surge too.

    I actually can only see electrified-stripping effects being useful if the spell to get "full electrified" immediately becomes insta-cast. Keep a cooldown on it, but even then, as you mentioned Lokken, they still need to be buffed immensely. Half the reason to keep Elementalist paired is for Lightning Strike because it remains the best single-target damage air spell that takes advantage of electrified. (The other half is for increased crit damage of course.)

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    It is kind of amusing that the two strongest air spells, Lightning Strike and Storm Shackle, aren't in the Stormcaller tree. ;]

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    Stormcaller is a mess right now, It needs a 1 second GCD to function properly, IT'S JUST TOO SLOW, CLUNKY AND AWKWARD without it. None of the new abilities do nearly enough damage to warrant a cast, you're still better off just spamming FL + LF.

    1 second GCD wil allow this class to work. Change Pouring Rain to have at least a 50% uptime or this SC will remain broken. Consider 35m range as well, as it's still the squishiest mage soul and it makes it hard to use effectively in pvp.

    I can virtually guarantee that if SC goes live like this in current form, it will never be used over Firestorm spamming, or the new radiate death + Devouring shadows.
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    I think that Eye of the Storm was "fixed" on Beta. On live for some reason it does much much more dmg than tooltip says. I did 41k total dmg on 3 dummies (3xelec). I think that was at least triple the dmg of Hailstorm.

    I remember that EotS was kinda strange when we had the old tooltips with base dmg because it was really really low. I just assumed that it just had an insane SP coefficient that multiplying the dmg. After we got new tooltips the dmg it looked like they were wrong. My current Live tooltip dmg is: EotS 1224, HS 2337, 4477. So we can assume that either tooltip dmg is wrong or EotS is bugged and does too much dmg.

    Anyway, like I said it was "fixed" on Beta. Kervik, pretty please, fix it in the other way. Update the tooltip dmg to current Live dmg and not dmg to the tooltip.

    Also you changed Lightning Conductor so now Forked Lighting doesn't get bonus dmg from Hypo. We got talent two tiers higher that gives 15 % bonus to AOE spells. So that is a 15 % bonus reduction.
    While AOEing a large pack of mobs we cast FL a lot with combination of HS&AB to refresh elec stacks. With many mobs 1 LF will remove all stacks so we have to refresh them often. Reducing the bonus will lower our dps. I guess that it might be otherwise because we get bonus for AOE (hopefully it will also work for LF) but I think that Lightning Conductor nerf is not necessary.

    Screamo is right. SC gameplay is still the same atm. FL + LF spam. Deep SC skills are useless (EotS, LB, Storm Surge).

  12. #12
    Storm Surge would probably be a lot more useful if it refreshed Electrified Stacks instead of removing all of them, or perhaps if it prevented Electrified stacks from being removed for a short period of time. Eye of the Storm needs to drain a set amount of charge to really be useful.

  13. #13
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    Fixes we were hoping to see done for Stormcaller, and what was done to address them:

    1: Reduce build-up time to achieve optimal AOE:

    * gave us Electric Charge, which instantly apply all our Electrify stacks to a target;
    * didn't give us something to spread those stacks to other targets, making Electric Charge less useful;
    * gave us static Nova, which instantly applies all our Electrify stacks to all enemies (yes!);
    * made some AOEs insta-cast and introduced mechanisms for allowing others to be cast instantly.

    2: Made AOE damage competitive in comparison to other callings:

    * nope.

    3: Improved the soul's survival:

    * gave us armors with 50 resist to each plane (yes!);
    * and removed Flash Freeze, our only root (no!).

    4: Lure players deep into the soul:

    * removed Spark of Life, which made SC unique as a DPS soul;
    * left the mechanics of Eye of the Storm and its underwhelming damage as-is;
    * gave us Tempest Armor, of questionable benefit over Storm Armor;
    * gave us Lightning Arc, which might have value in Conquest, but not elsewhere;
    * and moved Arctic Blast from 8 points to 48 points and increased its cd by 10s, which is not an improvement.

    ... well, at least one out of four things got done. ;/

    Another issue is that for all the claims of Stormcaller being an AOE-focused soul, it seems odd that I can put 43 points into it, get zero AOE-focused talents, and only acquire Hailstorm, which has 30% uptime, and Forked Lightning, which only hits 2 targets.

    Why is it that this so-called AOE soul doesn't get even one dependable out-of-the-box AOE until investing 44 points and acquiring Lightning Burst?

    My suggestions:

    * reduce the cooldown on Arctic Blast to 15s and move it lower in the tree;
    * give us back Spark of Life;
    * get rid of the weird single target nonsense on Tempest Armor and instead have it give Icicle and Arctic Blast a 25% chance to reset the cooldown on Static Discharge;
    * have Storm Surge, in addition to what it already does, increase Tempest Armor's chance to reset the cooldown of Static Discharge to 100% for the next Icicle or Arctic Blast and cause them to critically hit;
    * replace Eye of the Storm with a wall of icy shards that surrounds the mage, similar to the dominator's new walls - no charge, shorter cooldown, more damage;
    * and that's a start.

  14. #14
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    Posters above me are 100% right and have good suggestions.

    I'd also like to add that once again, none of the new skills make any sense from a PvE rotation standpoint, except maybe static nova right at the beginning of a fight.

    Tempest Armor needs to work off ALL spells, not just single target. Totally missed the mark on this one. Why would you be using Stormcaller in a single target fight? Why would you be using it in a mixed ST/AOE fight even? SC is way behind Cabalist right now for sustained AOE DPS.

    EOTS is so underwhelming. Have it cost 50 Charge and be done with it if you want to keep it in it's current form. Otherwise a massive buff is needed.

    Lightning Field should be on a 1sc GCD. Period, end of story. Lightning Arc should be on a 1sc GCD.

    I'm fine with keeping Cloudburst at 1.5 seconds. SC is not a ST soul.
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    As much as I would like to remain positive, it seems that Stormcaller isn't being improved. Things are simply being shuffled around and coming out worse or similar to what they already are in 1.10, stripped of what made it unique as a combat soul, and contorted into some awkward st-aoe hybrid.

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    I have the following issues with Stormcaller:

    (1) No reason to cast LIGHTNING BURST or STORM SURGE over Lightning Field. Both (a) do significantly less damage than LF, (b) have cast times and (c) remove all 5 stacks at once. There is a thread further down in the forum with the numbers.

    Also, LB seems to have had not only its damage reduced (due to deriving less benefit from Electrified stacks?) but also its mana cost severely increased.

    (2A) Water damage still feels like the foster-child of the tree (see below).

    (2B) Cold Weather Training: Given that we only have 2 water spells with cast times (Icicle & Hailstorm), 5 points to reduce their cast time is wasteful - especially since you only cast them at the start of the pull or through Eldritch/Opp/Tempest Armour procs.

    Suggestions for Cold Weather Training:

    (a) 5 point investment: Reduces cast times and global cooldown of water spells to 1 sec? (Pouring Rain would still have its use for a LF cycle?); and/or

    (b) Water spells have a [x]% chance to refresh Ice Shear (or maybe Electrified?). In addition, gives Arctic Blast a 20/40/60/80/100% chance to spread Ice Shear to each enemy it hits (maybe only on a crit hit?)

    (3) It's a bit odd that Cloudburst (even with a 51 point talent investment) does less damage than an untalented, 0-point ability (Storm Slash). On top of its higher damage, SS also triggers additional damage from Lightning Blade and procs Eldritch Armour. As a result, Cloudburst is effectively demoted to a second-rate alternative only to be used when you cannot get in melee range.

    (4) Eye of the Storm is very lacklustre for a 51 pt ability: Does less damage than Hailstorm, drains all of your charge (whereas you can augment hailstorm with SF), AND has a 1 minute CD. Suggestion: Let it spread Ice Shear to each enemy it hits as if each enemy already had the mage's max number of electrified stacks on them. (ie spread Ice Shear fully buffed and ready to go).

    (5) Stormcaller (and SC/Harbinger) builds are still the most mana intensive mage builds, despite their significantly lower ST damage.

    (6) I think we might once again have the bizarre scenario where people work AE spells (such as Hailstorm and Arctic Blast) into their ST rotation because they do more damage, especially with all those AE damage increases in the tree. There are already Beta threads with such rotations.


    Thank you for reading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashar View Post
    Suggestions for Cold Weather Training:

    (b) Water spells have a [x]% chance to refresh Ice Shear (or maybe Electrified?). In addition, gives Arctic Blast a 20/40/60/80/100% chance to spread Ice Shear to each enemy it hits (maybe only on a crit hit?)
    I like that idea! Except the last part about "maybe only on a crit hit?" - sounds like something somebody who has been abused and is afraid to dream big might say. o_O

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    Stormcaller: Feedback: continued

    Here are a few other ideas I posted just before Beta started. I thought it might be best to collate all SC feedback in the same thread to make life easier for Kervik. (Actually why don't we have a single thread dedicated to each soul? The cleric forum looks much tidier atm.)

    --------

    STORMCALLER:
    * I agree with Trickle. While I understand the design intention behind the changes, I hope there will be enough AOE content to warrant full SC builds in the endgame. Otherwise, SC will once again become (or: remain?) obsolete.

    * Tempest Armour: I'm a bit confused as to when this would be useful. What kind of situations do you envisage where we are nuking down a single target and an instant AE (within an 8-second window and a 10-second internal cooldown) would be helpful? I can only think of two situations:

    (1) PvP: you're chasing a single target and get to toss off a "bonus" AE into the enemy team every now and again.
    (2) "Tank on the run": The "over-geared tank speed-clearing & rogues' AE on the run" scenario mentioned earlier in the thread. You toss a couple of Cloudbursts while running after the tank to "trigger" instant AEs.

    As for "bosses which summon adds": Do these not tend to come in waves? When the adds come up, why would we be casting single target spells? Wouldn't we be focusing exclusively on AE abilities during an "add cycle"? Wasting 3+ seconds of GCD to trigger an instant AE during an AE-heavy phase does not seem very efficient to me. Maybe I'm missing the point of the armour?

    What if Tempest Armour:

    (a) had a chance to refresh the CD of Storm Nova or Pouring Rain (MUCH lower than 40% of course); and/or

    (b) gives Lightning Burst an x% chance to not consume electrified stacks; and/or

    (c) gave our AE spells a chance to increase our single-target damage?

    Re (c): The mechanics could be similar to the Paragon's "Unbound": Each AE places a stack of [xyz] on the mage. After [#] stacks, the next AE will consume all stacks and [increase the mage's single-target damage by [%] for [1 minute]]. This would help us earn our keep in between AE cycles. By no means should we become top ST, but at least make a meaningful and viable contribution. Keeping the required stacks high ensures that it comes into play only in between true AoE cycles and discourage players exploiting the ability by squeezing an AoE spell into their ST rotation.

    * The two SC armours seem a bit lackluster at the moment compared to the other mage armours.

    * Could Ele's Lightning Strike also build electrified stacks so as to increase synergy between the two souls? What about some of the air-based abilities of Doms/Harbingers?

    Thanks again for all the hard work, Kervik!

  19. #19
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    (2B) Cold Weather Training: Given that we only have 2 water spells with cast times (Icicle & Hailstorm), 5 points to reduce their cast time is wasteful - especially since you only cast them at the start of the pull or through Eldritch/Opp/Tempest Armour procs.

    Suggestions for Cold Weather Training:

    (a) 5 point investment: Reduces cast times and global cooldown of water spells to 1 sec? (Pouring Rain would still have its use for a LF cycle?); and/or
    Love this idea!

    I always wished Lightning Burst worked similar to Fulminate - Cost a full bar of charge, instant cast, very high damage, didn't east stacks. This would make it effective in pvp, and pve.
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    Hehe - it seems (2B) has a sub-clause for everyone ;P

    EDIT: Re 2B(a): Hmm. It just occurred to me that this would mean just spamming Icicle instead of Cloudburst or HB Slash - which makes Stormshard redundant. Maybe Icicle could be excluded from the list of spells CWT affects. I'd like to see a use for Cloudburst too.


    That's an interesting suggestion re LB - although, would you ever build up 100 charge just for LB instead of using SF for the rest of your rotation? SC doesn't really have an overabundance of charge.

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