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Thread: chloromancer is dead now ???

  1. #1
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    chloromancer is dead now ???

    so ima put this small mild rant on here so the devs can read it before this goes mainstream and they just get completely qq bombarded, so try to consider it as a bit constructive considering you basicly killed chloro. this doesn't even come close to covering everything, you gave us a couple things we needed such as an AoE purify and such which is nice but you prettymuch nerfed our primary *essentially our ONLY* raid heal ability into the dust which makes chloro's nothing but mt healers now, we don't have strong enough AoE heals without spores to even attempt raid healing, and then you went and gave us a ton of hot's, you could have solved the mobile healing by merely making VL like say a 44 abilty *scaling with lvls ofc* and castable while moving like the current mm channels.

    ok switching from dmg done to time is a bit irritating, you can't use things like the planar boost to do x2 healing on really tough t2 rifsts when your other healer dies or somebody forgets to purge/interrupt.

    2. and this is by far the most important part since it really messes up chloro healing - *radiant spores now heals a cap of 5% of the mages health per proc*, radiant spores was the only thing that let mages actually heal raids effectively. flourishes cd is way to long, as is natural splendor, we got no sustained raid heals *ya we got the AoE veil but that does nothing for spike raid healing*, i mean picking up the chloro crystal for 2 piece hk i went from about 1-1.2k heal to 2k, finally becoming a non useless chloro.

    all in all - chloro *points at new heal over times* has become a warden with a couple ofencive heals, and severely nerfed raid heals *if i wanted to be a warden or a ST healer i'd play a cleric, and our 1 good raid heal ability is now completely gone being cut from like 1-2k procs down to what 350-400 max, that's a pretty severe nerf*

  2. #2
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    i'm actually quite tempted to just say "i give up on mage" with the modification you made to radiant spores and making mages no longer a viable raid healer, and into a VL spam *with occasional NT* and a warden when people move. if i wanted to play warden i'd move to cleric, if i wanted a 1 button healer i'd set up a macro and play cleric. if i wanted a cast on target ST healer, i'd go to cleric. and now to raid heal you half to go to cleric

    when you throw a class spec entirely to the dogs and theirs enough people who play mage just for chloro atm *usuially 1/2 or more of the mages ik play it for chloro* and you just killed chloro. mages were problematic enough to find sometimes as is, and now you just flipped 1/2 of them off.

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    Not sure what all the fuss is about Mage aoe healing got a much needed change in nurfing radiant spores because lets be honest it was the most overpowered healing spell in the game. The AoE healing has been changed to 10 targets from lifegiving veil and you can now use NT when needed in a hybrid AoE healing build that uses vile spores and similar to tank healing with void life procs instant NT's.
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    NT can be used sure, and it's the strength of the nerf, if they brought it down to 10-15% it wouldn't be so much of an issue, an 8k health mage could still heal 800 off of a spores proc, but 400 per proc with it's proc rate being only 26% on the high end, that would take what. lets do some math

    400 heal for an 8k hp mage *higher hp chloro, maby less now that the tree is a bit modified*

    rogue hits say once a second give or take, 26% chance proc, every say 4 hits so every 4 secodns he's procing for 400 health, 1 cleric drops an AoE heal in about 2 seconds, and heals for 2k AoE, and it's got no cd. tell me how that is even close to fair

    as for your NT argument, NT does jack for AoE healing, it's modified more by MT healing veil. so that hardly counts. a slight nerf i could see like 50% health gained or something of the sort, cuts it in 1/2. pretty strong nerf. but this prettymuch makes the spell useless.

    and if you put together the spores being now basicly useless, + NT procing often due to spells already, there they made the HK chloro crystal pretty pathetic as well.

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    trion is confident that harbinger will overshadow the colossal nerf to chloro's raid healing, and even severely messing with their mechanics so that they won't get qq'd at to much. chances are if they leave the nerf to spores to that much of an extreme the'll loose quite a few mages.

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    well gl i'm entirely done with mage when they nerf it that badly AND severely mess with it's mechanics. it healed perfectly fine in pvp even with valor reducing the dmg.

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    I am not trying to be attacking here, so please do not take it that way.

    Classes change when expansions hit. There are always the cries of "they nerffed it into the ground", when the "nerf" is almost always negated with an adjustment to the way the players play the game. For instance, everyone is used to going lock with Chloro. Change that to Harbinger and you will find that your healing may even increase, possibly by a large margin. I am currently trying out 33 Harbinger/ 33 Chloro and let me tell you, instant cast NTs every 6 seconds on a .5 second GCD is nothing to sneeze at. I haven't tried it raid healing yet, but it is looking like it is going to be sick. I am pulling over 2k DPS with it as well.

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    The change to radiant spores might be reasonable if multiple chloros can put it on a target.

    Think Ituziel with 3 RS debuffs.

    However, there should be a talent to increase the % of mage's health it bases its heal proc off of.

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    It is a fix not a nurf, it has been broken for too long now it is brought in line with other AoE healers and we have been giving a compromise we now have 10 target lifegiving veil instead of 5 so your output of healing just doubled congratulations.
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    the point is that their making mages pure MT healing, ya NT every 6 seconds as instant cast isn't 1/2 bad and it may make for decent, but with the majority of the mages healing comming from radiant spores, that nerf is overly much.

    ya i get radiant spores is strong on live atm, i picked up the crystal and jumped 800 hps's so ik it's strong, but that doesn't mean you gotta make it useless. 5% max mage health is what 7-8% of your other members, when AoE's can take them from 100%-10% in one shot, that prettymuch makes spores not even worth it to have on the bar, casting withering vines which most mages deem useless atm would be more beneficial then casting spores post nerf. since it's procing double heals on the tanks which in turn procs your greater essences and trinkets.

    if spores was say a 50% proc rate or something, that's every other hit and .5-1 sec gcd which would make it proc 1-2 times a second for rogues and bursty mages, would be 400 health a second to people attacking, it'd help lessen the blow a bit, by combigning it with your other raid heals maby you could do something with it *maybe*, or upping the max health % to 10-15%. but at 5% max only a mage built with some endurance in their gear *say pvp leggings/boots* would have any use for spores currently, and even that's pretty iffy. drop a ruin and that's what 1k heal. maby instant NT if you save up for when it's needed. but some bosses don't wait for a 6sec cd for NT, 10 second CD for flourish or 10 sec cd for ruin before AoEing. and some of those AoE's you need more then 1 ability to keep up with that

    if you've healed with mage in live atm you'd realize how reliant we are on spores for even decent raid healing, and even then clerics can still out heal us. we just don't have enough AoE burst heals to deal with those heavy or constant hitting AoE's without spores doing well.

    granted every 6 seconds doesn't seem that long, but if you've raided much you'd know how long that 6sec can actually be. without spores i'd need flourish to be near 1/4 it's current cd.

    and cookie mages were behind clerics in raid healing with spores *good clerics* and now they removed that. ya we may heal 10 people but in 20 man, that's not gonna cut it. especially with all your bursty AoE healing being on cd's that higher raids aren't forgiving to.

    i'm not talking about numbers i'm talking about effectiveness. idc about numbers i care about the raid surviving, and when your raid healer you can't rely on 6 and 10 sec cd's when you only got a couple of them, it just doesn't work out well that way.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coooki3 View Post
    It is a fix not a nurf, it has been broken for too long now it is brought in line with other AoE healers and we have been giving a compromise we now have 10 target lifegiving veil instead of 5 so your output of healing just doubled congratulations.
    Is a 25% every ~1.5s for each raid member to be healed by 400 in line with cleric heals?

    I suppose if you add it to whatever LGV procs, it might. But that's what testing will reveal.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morank View Post
    Is a 25% every ~1.5s for each raid member to be healed by 400 in line with cleric heals?

    I suppose if you add it to whatever LGV procs, it might. But that's what testing will reveal.
    the only way it'll even come close to clerics raid healing, is if they boost he proc rate a hell of alot higher, modify the amount of healing that LGV gives to a much higher % so that it offsets it.

    my point is currently on live spores makes up for what 60% of a mages raid healing, the other is constant and not spiky so it can't deal with bursty boss AoE's very well, so basicly 60% of our healing was just nerfed into the ground, that essentially cuts mages healing in 1/2 *it would be less but the occasional NT instant makes up for a little*

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    Korakara, I agree that that would be the case if the nerf to spores was the only change. The fact is that is was NOT the only change, and many of the other changes make up for it. Things like the fact that many Harbinger strikes deal life damage, which converts to healing.

    If you focus on the spores nerf, you are going to be frustrated and pissed. If you find the new way things work, you will be happy. The choice is 100% yours.

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    Please, look what clerics lost they lost DoL. Sure they gained some other cool things but chloro gained 10 target healing which is better than anything not just for your HPS but for raid survival, cleric healing is always in bursts never sustained, they rely on spores and chloro AoE healers to fill the gaps when they have there 1.5s between globals on DoL's. We gained a sustained 10 target healing and sacrificed our best healing ability seems like a fair trade for me at least.

    But please, try chloro AoE raid healing in raids before you judge it just by looking at numbers, and if in 3 months when SL is released and you find that chloros are super underpowered compared to before then you have reason to whine about it. But now currently you can only speculate until tested in a raid environment.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coooki3 View Post
    Not sure what all the fuss is about Mage aoe healing got a much needed change in nurfing radiant spores because lets be honest it was the most overpowered healing spell in the game. The AoE healing has been changed to 10 targets from lifegiving veil and you can now use NT when needed in a hybrid AoE healing build that uses vile spores and similar to tank healing with void life procs instant NT's.
    I'm gonna miss grinding PA levels with Chlorocaller though.

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    AoE grinding needs bursty heals, with spores we were able to solo heal some 10 man raids just as clerics can *say RoTP with silgen for instance* but once that burst heal is removed we'll most likely be unable to do that, and yes looking at harbinger it has a lot of extra sustained healing over bursty healing, but one thing you do half to realize with that, is it's melee. and quite a few fights are melee unfriendly, we get a teleport and a every 15 seconds charge to keep in melee to keep those up, and if you abuse eldrich armor and save it for times you need the burst maby you can drop an instant spores and an instant NT, but that'll take testing.

    you are right on the focusing spores all i'm gonna do is get pissed because atm that is chloro's primary healing. but the second thing i mentioned was messing with the mechanics of it, adding heal over times on a single target , when all they needed to do was make void life a spell castable when moving, or better yet add a few pts to harbinger for the mobile fights and spam AoE slashes till eldrich armor procs and use it for a few others. raid healing chloro will almost require harbinger as it stands though.

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    What a joke of a thread, you're seriously crying about radiant spores being nerfed, an ability that took little skill to put every 15 seconds. I'm loving the new chloromancer and glad they fixed spores.

    They were a crutch, please learn to play properly.

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    Have you actually used the new LGV?

    Just asking, as Vile spores are around 1.1k + 1000, Ruin 700 +700, Withering 1k, NT ~2.1k, VL 700x3.
    And I am a scrub with only 1.7k sp. I am sure there are Chloros with raid gear getting 50% more than that.
    All with LiveGIVING veil.

    Now we did take it in the shorts on LifeBound. But the other tank heal tools make up for that on the ST department.

  19. #19
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    Ok, napkin math time.

    33 Harbinger/33 Chloro
    Instant cast life spells heal about 600.
    Instant cast air spells heal about 250.
    NT should heal about 1,000, but I am not sure, it is instant cast and has a 0.5 GCD.
    Harbinger slashes have a 1 sec GCD.

    I have macroed together:
    Vengeful Shock (off the GCD)
    Vorpal Slash (life w/8 sec CD, 1 sec GCD)
    Storm's Fury (Air w/6 sec CD, 1 sec GCD)
    Ruin (Life w/15 sec CD, but has a 1.5 GCD)
    Piercing Beam (Life w/4 sec CD, 1 sec GCD)
    Storm Slash (Air w/no CD, 1 sec GCD)

    It is easiest to look at this over 240 seconds (4 min). (*Note: This is an optimal rotation)
    In that time:
    40 Nature's Touch for 40,000 healing.
    119 Life instant casts for 71,400 healing.
    98 Air instant casts for 24,500 healing.
    That is a total of 135,900 healing or 566.25 HPS (PER PERSON). For a full 10, that is over 5k hps.

    That is without spores, which you would have to cast 15 times in 240 seconds. That reduces the 566.25 hps/person to 530.86 hps/person + whatever spores currently does.
    Spores is 16% chance (I am not seeing 25%) to heal about 400. With normal GCD being 1.5 that comes out to 42.24 hps, which is a SLIGHT increase in hps/person to 573.1.

    Note that that is at 33/33. At 32/37 (when we get there) the up time on Spores is going to go up to 26, which will up the hps some more.

    Additionally, I did not factor in that I am casting Blazing Light every 16 seconds, which is a Life instant cast on a 1.5 sec GCD. That will increase the healing even more. That also is not taking into consideration Flourish and Withering Vines. Another thing that I just thought of, though I am not going to go back and redo the math is that Vorpal Slash actually has a cast time (before talents), so it will heal even more.

    That and that math is WITHOUT bonus healing from SP and talents.

    That all being said, I am sure that there is a better way to do it, but that is what I came up with on the fly.

  20. #20
    @keegantir, just stick to 51 cholor and press void life works out between 850-895 hps non crit (1312-1358 hps when all 3 ticks crit), which I'm sorry to say is vastly more than melee spec cholor, tried that today in new dungeon(which is extremely unfriendly to melee) never died so much in a 5 man in my life on live lol. Obviously doing less dps, but hey mages don't come close to 2 button spamming warriors now doing 7k dps..... so will stick to heals.

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