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Thread: Concerns with PvP DMG vs Healing

  1. #1
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    Concerns with PvP DMG vs Healing

    I feel right now as from a stand point of a cleric healer that DMG vs Healing in warfronts right now should be adjusted. With the removal of some abilities from healing specs i am having a hard time with healing anyone in warfronts. I have tried many healing specs in pvp and so far the only thing that seems close to being viable is warden/sent.

    With the removal of serendipity and the increase in dmg there is no way a cleric can have any burst single target healing on a player in pvp. I don't mind Trion developers putting clerics in the position to cast 2-3 seconds big heals on a single person but with the dmg increase people are dropping like flies. There is no reason right now to even cast a single target heal because by the time you even get half way in finishing the person is dead.

    I am trying to rethink how to play the spec but at the moment i feel kinda hopeless as a cleric healer at the moment. Any other cleric healers thoughts on this subject? Any builds you tried that worked IN pvp?

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    You realize, right, that our cleric dev is SEVERELY outnumbered on how the collective dev feels about PvP.

    Damage is king!

    "Balanced" PvP would be a fully geared, equally skilled, dps vs. healer equating to neither of them dying. But this will NEVER be the case. There are far more damage focused players than healing focused players and when someone can't kill a healer, the forum rage is relentless and the devs always give in.

    Oh, and I've always preferred Warden healing in PvP anyway, but yeah, I've given up on any kind of equality for healers... it just won't happen.

  3. #3
    Valor isnt working right now in pvp, it might say you have 58% reduction but really have about 9%. That is why damage seems so high and there are some abilities that need adjusted.

    Not worried about it, it will get fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhrawn View Post
    You realize, right, that our cleric dev is SEVERELY outnumbered on how the collective dev feels about PvP.

    Damage is king!

    "Balanced" PvP would be a fully geared, equally skilled, dps vs. healer equating to neither of them dying. But this will NEVER be the case. There are far more damage focused players than healing focused players and when someone can't kill a healer, the forum rage is relentless and the devs always give in.

    Oh, and I've always preferred Warden healing in PvP anyway, but yeah, I've given up on any kind of equality for healers... it just won't happen.
    I have nothing against the cleric developers and the changes they made with the healing trees. Honestly in pvp i don't care if i live or die but when i'm having problems doing MY JOB (ie healing) in PvP i feel like something is wrong. It's not really the healing trees its the damage output and the healing rate.

    I know that there will never be equality between specs but all i aim for is viably in pairing them together and making them work in a pvp situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyaus View Post
    Valor isnt working right now in pvp, it might say you have 58% reduction but really have about 9%. That is why damage seems so high and there are some abilities that need adjusted.

    Not worried about it, it will get fixed.
    Interesting ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOveRH View Post
    I know that there will never be equality between specs but all i aim for is viably in pairing them together and making them work in a pvp situation.
    I was being partially sarcastic, but thanks Tyaus for the more likely reason.

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    Can a dev confirm that valor is not working in pvp right now? I'm seeing a lot of people quoting exact numbers around 9.8% or something. How are you arriving at that amount?

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    Senior Member bctrainers's Avatar
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    Once you go above level 50, your valor values begin to change.
    --bc
    HL3 CONFIRMED

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdandi View Post
    Can a dev confirm that valor is not working in pvp right now? I'm seeing a lot of people quoting exact numbers around 9.8% or something. How are you arriving at that amount?
    No need for a Dev to confirm, with full valor gear and with the drink it is 9.8% reduction. It will be fixed.

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    As a for example,


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    I'd need to run another check to see my exact valor values, but it was certainly mostly Pathfinder gear with a hit neck or somesuch.

  11. #11
    Before Trion adjust healing in WZ and fix valor there no point to be healer, everyone can go see how many Isle Embrosia need to use before have 5% to 100% HP, many..basically healing is nerfed -50% while player take huge amount damage because low valor..no matter what spec, healer just can't keep players alive.

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    Well, valor issues aside, I still agree with Love. I feel I have lost all my mobility as a healer. After playing a warden/sent in live, the new cast times in beta feel excruciatingly long. Perhaps this was intended by the devs, but i would like to know the reason behind it, other than whiney warriors that try to dps down a warden and then scream for a nerf.

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    The huge hit to valor baffles me, I know it's not final etc etc, but why even try this. If anything, people have been dying too fast on live, not too slow. Really confuses me.

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    I hope in the upcoming betas, Trion will let us purchase the best armor sets with gold or something, instead of insane amounts of valor, just so we can test how exactly the pvp will be like with the r80/lv60 armors as well.

    And a question for the rest of the beta testers, is it me or did I just on the chat an item with like 1k valor on it?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Somnia View Post
    Well, valor issues aside, I still agree with Love. I feel I have lost all my mobility as a healer. After playing a warden/sent in live, the new cast times in beta feel excruciatingly long. Perhaps this was intended by the devs, but i would like to know the reason behind it, other than whiney warriors that try to dps down a warden and then scream for a nerf.
    Or, it has something to do with a lot of CC being reduced in some trees, for example. Champion no longer has an interrupt and no heal debuff the only thing to remain is battlefield intimidation. Should healers begiven a bunch on instant cast heals vs specs with little to no control over their enemy? Plus its still beta, and we are testing things at the lower 50's bracket meaning everything is not maxed out.



    Quote Originally Posted by Whyfish View Post
    The huge hit to valor baffles me, I know it's not final etc etc, but why even try this. If anything, people have been dying too fast on live, not too slow. Really confuses me.
    I think it was meant to be like that, right now on live it is like that. Little to no valor, it makes sense to remove a lot of the valor on the current pvp gear then reform how it works for the upper tiers of NEW pvp gear. Did you really think we were going to keep our 55-58% valor mitigation only to be boosted up even further to stupid levels of mitigation? The battles would last forever and healers would simply not die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adegard View Post
    I hope in the upcoming betas, Trion will let us purchase the best armor sets with gold or something, instead of insane amounts of valor, just so we can test how exactly the pvp will be like with the r80/lv60 armors as well.

    And a question for the rest of the beta testers, is it me or did I just on the chat an item with like 1k valor on it?
    Ummm, no to buying pvp gear with plat or gold. Yes to the new gear having 1k valor on it.

    Again, it makes sense to lower the value of our current pvp gear's valor mitigation so it can be given to our new sets. If we kept our current sets value but was rewarded with new sets there would either be, barely any progression, or the valor mitigation would be stupid high. Don't think of it as I've got the max ranked gear, because you no longer do and we are still grinding to hit max level so we can then start earning max ranked gear.

  16. #16
    Seems DR was off a bit. Ive chained CCD quite a bit, to the point of it being stupid to bother.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    I think it was meant to be like that, right now on live it is like that.
    It is a bad idea considering with current ID gear I can pelt people for 3k fireballs without critting.
    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    Little to no valor, it makes sense to remove a lot of the valor on the current pvp gear then reform how it works for the upper tiers of NEW pvp gear.
    No it doesn't.
    This is part of the issue as to why PvP is broken below level 50.
    No valor, means no mitigation, means you die extremely quickly to things that normally would not one shot you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    Did you really think we were going to keep our 55-58% valor mitigation only to be boosted up even further to stupid levels of mitigation? The battles would last forever and healers would simply not die.
    Or instead of moving to such an extreme, they could have simply left valor alone and done what they didwith CQ essences.
    Considering the new PvP gear also has much more endurance, removal of valor is foolish.


    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post

    Again, it makes sense to lower the value of our current pvp gear's valor mitigation so it can be given to our new sets.
    Again, this makes absolutely no sense.
    Considering again, how hard people can hit currently, removal of valor would flat out kill PvP from 50 to 60.
    By YOUR logic, p1 to p8 should have had different levels of valor as it did in the past.
    We all saw the problems with doing such a thing, so repeating the same error is stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    , If we kept our current sets value but was rewarded with new sets there would either be, barely any progression, or the valor mitigation would be stupid high.
    Are you drunk?
    Increasing base stats would not be any progression?
    Really?
    let alone again, you are running to the extreme end.
    Valor can simply be left normalized as it currently is between different sets of PvP gear.
    Telling people they have to PvP for FIFTY PRESTIGE RANKS WITH NO VALOR, is a bad bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    Don't think of it as I've got the max ranked gear, because you no longer do and we are still grinding to hit max level so we can then start earning max ranked gear.
    Or or!
    We can simply leave valor at its current values, and progress people through base stats as we did from p1 to p8.
    Considering endurance has also increase, it is clear that we will have larger pools.
    So progression is maintained, and people don't proceed to one shot each other on the way to 60.

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    After thinking about this topic for a day or two, I've come to the conclusion that Valor may not exactly be broken, but only the % shown in our stats has not been resolved yet.

    Here's what I mean.

    Right now, we have around 1400 Valor (+/- 100) which on Live converts to 50-60% dmg reduction.

    When we get to level 60 and start getting the new PvP gear, a full set of the beginning blue gear has a total of (for clerics) 4050 Valor (not including PA/sigil/etc bonuses), not to mention 15375 armor (25791 w/ a shield), 430 Int, 602 Wis, 906 End, 1324 SP, 280 SCrit, 460 Veng, and 572 Resist.

    A full set of Rank 80 Epic PvP gear will have 18483 armor (30823 w/ a shield), 501 Int, 702 Wis, 1053 End, 1540 SP, 325 SCrit, 556 Veng, 648 Resist, and a 3825 Valor! (The Rank 80 Weapons have 225 *less* valor than the Rank 60/70 Weapons do.)

    If our gear did still reduce damage by 50%, once we got the full set of epic PvP gear, 3825 valor would reduce our damage by 125%... so, yeah.

    I've come to the conclusion that it's going to be hard to test PvP during this Beta, especially healing because they Valor values are wrong, as has been stated, our current gear is more likely only reducing 15%-ish damage instead of the 50% it says it's doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhrawn View Post
    After thinking about this topic for a day or two, I've come to the conclusion that Valor may not exactly be broken, but only the % shown in our stats has not been resolved yet.

    Here's what I mean.

    Right now, we have around 1400 Valor (+/- 100) which on Live converts to 50-60% dmg reduction.

    When we get to level 60 and start getting the new PvP gear, a full set of the beginning blue gear has a total of (for clerics) 4050 Valor (not including PA/sigil/etc bonuses), not to mention 15375 armor (25791 w/ a shield), 430 Int, 602 Wis, 906 End, 1324 SP, 280 SCrit, 460 Veng, and 572 Resist.

    A full set of Rank 80 Epic PvP gear will have 18483 armor (30823 w/ a shield), 501 Int, 702 Wis, 1053 End, 1540 SP, 325 SCrit, 556 Veng, 648 Resist, and a 3825 Valor! (The Rank 80 Weapons have 225 *less* valor than the Rank 60/70 Weapons do.)

    If our gear did still reduce damage by 50%, once we got the full set of epic PvP gear, 3825 valor would reduce our damage by 125%... so, yeah.

    I've come to the conclusion that it's going to be hard to test PvP during this Beta, especially healing because they Valor values are wrong, as has been stated, our current gear is more likely only reducing 15%-ish damage instead of the 50% it says it's doing.
    I'm going to assume that 4050 valor is probably going to be ~43% mitigation, since without a sigil and runes/PA, that's roughly what I have at level 50 on live. So, if they plan on keeping the percentages roughly the same, I'm going to venture a guess that 1% reduction = ~95 valor at 60. Honestly, I'm not really sure why they scaled the valor so far down in the beta for level 50's.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    It is a bad idea considering with current ID gear I can pelt people for 3k fireballs without critting.

    No it doesn't.
    This is part of the issue as to why PvP is broken below level 50.
    No valor, means no mitigation, means you die extremely quickly to things that normally would not one shot you.

    Or instead of moving to such an extreme, they could have simply left valor alone and done what they didwith CQ essences.
    Considering the new PvP gear also has much more endurance, removal of valor is foolish.



    Again, this makes absolutely no sense.
    Considering again, how hard people can hit currently, removal of valor would flat out kill PvP from 50 to 60.
    By YOUR logic, p1 to p8 should have had different levels of valor as it did in the past.
    We all saw the problems with doing such a thing, so repeating the same error is stupid.


    Are you drunk?
    Increasing base stats would not be any progression?
    Really?
    let alone again, you are running to the extreme end.
    Valor can simply be left normalized as it currently is between different sets of PvP gear.
    Telling people they have to PvP for FIFTY PRESTIGE RANKS WITH NO VALOR, is a bad bad idea.



    Or or!
    We can simply leave valor at its current values, and progress people through base stats as we did from p1 to p8.
    Considering endurance has also increase, it is clear that we will have larger pools.
    So progression is maintained, and people don't proceed to one shot each other on the way to 60.
    It is going to happen anyways mainly because the lower tier of pvp gear will not be around so what we have in beta is what it is on live. Players who spend a little extra time to gear up in epic gear then jump into live pvp in the lower brackets tend to do A LOT better than those just trying to get through their bracket. In this case we are all just lvling up through the bracket its just some players had the time to push through the ranks before and gear up or hit every raid and grind through ID, they are the twinks of the early brackets and will eventually get through to move on to bigger and better things.

    Currently on live it is difficult to balance pvp through the earlier levels without knowing exactly how it will effect end game. That is sort of what is going on, damage is high and in cases a little weird but to try and balance things right now with early level 50's is probably not to great of an idea.

    Also your idea to keep valor as it is on live is a bit nutty. If you saw the total valor you have on beta then look at the gear being offered as reward you'd probably think the same. Mitigation would be through the roof to the point that fights would be sluggishly slow. If your suggesting that everyone have equal valor, me personally, I do not care but I think a lot would. Progression is with the gear stats yes, but I noticed most of the progression is going to Endurance which has me wondering on how well the pvp gear will do if I have to go open world with it.

    My honest opinion is that the beta should test pvp and the classes with the many builds at lvl 60 with MAX pvp gear then adjust from there, as for the lower levels and their brackets, damage nerfs and buffs SHOULD ONLY EFFECT PVP. We do not want the out come of pvp flaws to completely flip the pve side up side down.

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