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Thread: Lack of macros?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keisuke102 View Post
    Keep the macros as they are on live. If you don't want to macro, that's your choice.
    I can tell the same, keep the cooldowns as it is on PTR, if you dont want to use all skills available to full potential thats your choice.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    I disagree - removed reliance on macros is a very positive thing. It means you'll have to be more creative with your keybinds but it also raises the skill cap greatly. Very good change.
    There is a distinct difference between removing reliance and removing entirely. Also this skill argument makes me kinda laugh.

    It's not skill it's talent and that is subjective. Some people can't maximize NB dps because they can't keep a single fiery spike up at 5 stacks but they can do well with Blade dancer where every combo builder and finisher has to be on a separate key. Other people have issues with Bladedancer but can keep DoTs up with little effort. Trying to say one requires more "skill" than the other is more than a little arrogant imo.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seyrie View Post
    I can tell the same, keep the cooldowns as it is on PTR, if you dont want to use all skills available to full potential thats your choice.
    Really I could just go back and forth with you on this but I really just don't give a damn. Not being able to make alot of my abilities together will pretty ruin the game for me. I can do fine with Pally as it stands right now but I would really hate to be a dps right now.

  4. #124
    The entitlement in this thread is TOO DAMN HIGH!


    Anyway I figured it out. They got rid of macroness so they don't have to add more macro slots.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    There is a distinct difference between removing reliance and removing entirely. Also this skill argument makes me kinda laugh.

    It's not skill it's talent and that is subjective. Some people can't maximize NB dps because they can't keep a single fiery spike up at 5 stacks but they can do well with Blade dancer where every combo builder and finisher has to be on a separate key. Other people have issues with Bladedancer but can keep DoTs up with little effort. Trying to say one requires more "skill" than the other is more than a little arrogant imo.
    Absolutely. I am fine with macros existing to a limited extent, but they shouldn't dominate how they do now on Live (ie there should be more of a performance increase from not macroing).

    There are different kinds of skill. In your example above, you're comparing skill in buff/debuff management vs general APM/rotational ability.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dysturbed View Post
    I don't ask for special treatment or "compensations" from my raid group or from Trion, and I think I perform quite well given my disabilities. The point myself and everyone else is making here is that Trion is pulling the rug out from under people (disabled or not) by removing the macro functionality that Rift has had for over a year.

    There are not many games that I can play well only using one hand, and I personally have my Rift subscription paid up for another year and a half. I did so under the belief I'd still be able to play the game, but now I'm not so sure. I think it is a bad move on Trion's part to take away something that so many players use after it has been a part of the game for so long.

    I'm very stubborn, so I will continue to play and hopefully devise some method of making it work for me, but I still think it is wrong, and I still think Raen Ryong and his elitist **** mentality could benefit from a bullet to the brain.
    Ok, you seriously need to grow up. I mean, imagine a person who thinks someone should be shot in the head or suffer a calamity because their opinion on a game is different?

    Seriously. Grow up.

    At any rate, it does seems excessive to need so many different buttons. I'm sure Trion is capable of finding some middle ground to prevent the 2-button winners while not having quite so many skills to wade through.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searril View Post
    Ok, you seriously need to grow up. I mean, imagine a person who thinks someone should be shot in the head or suffer a calamity because their opinion on a game is different?

    Seriously. Grow up.

    At any rate, it does seems excessive to need so many different buttons. I'm sure Trion is capable of finding some middle ground to prevent the 2-button winners while not having quite so many skills to wade through.
    I am not the one who needs to grow up, my statements are valid and are not due to merely opinions on a game. RR and the other elitists on this thread keep referring to people as "weak" and "undeserving" simply because they want to keep a feature in the game that helps people with disadvantages perform a little better.

    Everyone loves to make unrealistic comparisons between real life and a game, so I will make a comparison of my own to validate my remarks... There once was a group of individuals who were harcore elitists, they were lead by a man named Adolf Hitler. They believed that they were better than everyone else and almost brought the world to the brink of destruction based on those beliefs.

    So with that said, be careful what you N A Z I bastages wish for, you may end up pushing Trion to make changes to the game that will force many players to quit and the game will flicker and die.

    See I can make idiotic comparisons as well, I must be a true forum troll now just like the rest of you.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dysturbed View Post
    I am not the one who needs to grow up, my statements are valid and are not due to merely opinions on a game.
    You said the following:

    "I still think Raen Ryong and his elitist **** mentality could benefit from a bullet to the brain."

    So, yes, you need to grow up.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searril View Post
    You said the following:

    "I still think Raen Ryong and his elitist **** mentality could benefit from a bullet to the brain."

    So, yes, you need to grow up.
    Well, a bullet to the brain cured Hitler of his small minded elitist/racist views. There is no reason it won't give RR an "open mind" so to speak...rofl

    Edit: I was in the military for 11 years, so I am hard-wired to believe that violence solves everything. =)

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    Absolutely. I am fine with macros existing to a limited extent, but they shouldn't dominate how they do now on Live (ie there should be more of a performance increase from not macroing).

    There are different kinds of skill. In your example above, you're comparing skill in buff/debuff management vs general APM/rotational ability.
    They did though. Lets use ranger. People say is is mind numbing macro spam. Now it was macroable no lie. I found it boring as hell. But on live I can tell just by looking at the total number on a parse who had quick shot and feral aggression on seperate keys AND who used them correctly. The same works for live 49 NB. You can tell obviously who has Spike on a seperate button but you can also tell who just has a single finisher macro button rather than SoD seperated to an extent so they can pop it when they should and not just when it is off cool down.

    I really think this whole macro thing is a solution in search of a problem. The only vaguely logical reason I can see is that the mage dev designed the mages a lot differently than the other callings and rather than redo mages A LOT they decided they would redo every calling a little (I am not really seeing a huge change tbh) to try and level that metric.

  11. #131
    (BLEEP) (BLEEP) and (BLEEP)

    For crying out loud, Trion will you just do my idea into the beta already so this back and forth arguing over this (BLEEP) can end finally?

    let both sides get what they want without compromising the other.

    add the darn cooldown timers to macros....


    lets end this already and start talking about the good new stuff in the game.

  12. #132
    Did we really just go full Godwin in here?

    Screaming "elitist" and "troll" doesn't lend your arguments any credibility. That being said, I happily accept the title of "elitist" if by that you mean "someone who believes that good players should be rewarded for their devotion and skill and not just have everyone handed everything on a plate just because they happen to be playing the game".

    As someone (I'm sorry that I don't remember the name nothing personal) mentioned before - grab your core abilities and learn to use them properly. Then, as you become more familiar, add more complexity over time - more abilities. Learn to use them. Repeat until you have mastered the build. Accept that some things may be too complex and that not everyone will be able to do them (eg Defilemancer on Live). Accept your own ability level (where-ever that falls within the spectrum) and choose a build to match - "don't bite off more than you can chew". It is useless if you are so focused on playing a given build that you cannot respond to mechanics/PvP situations.

    Again: I have no problem with people using macros. They just shouldn't be so powerful. Using arbitrary numbers, on a scale of 1-10:

    If at the moment a skilled player using everything with high efficiency (but not maximum) and without over-reliance on macros is performing at a 10, and a fairly good player but who is just mashing a limited number of macros is performing at an 8~9, say, I would like the gap widened to where he would be performing at a 6~7 or so. Enough so there is a big increase from not using spam macros excessively and instead being able to rotate everything properly (as well as appropriate use of situational things), but not enough so that they aren't able to play. I don't want that person reduced to a 1 or a 2 as many counterarguments seem to imply.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    You're*
    It's*

    Amusing hypocrisy and complete lack of argument (with ad hominems to boot!) aside, why would a large portion of players stop playing? You can still play. You just can't pretend to be awesome at the game while hitting 3-6 buttons (in the majority of cases).

    If your performance matters to you enough that becoming less than fantastic is daunting, why not just become better?
    They will lose players in the world you envision. Not everyone wants to invest a lot of effort into a game. If you cut a large portion of you players off from content because it is too hard they will get bored and leave.

    Why should you care? Fewer players means less money, which means fewer devs, less content and eventually the death of a game.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Fidelias View Post
    They will lose players in the world you envision. Not everyone wants to invest a lot of effort into a game. If you cut a large portion of you players off from content because it is too hard they will get bored and leave.

    Why should you care? Fewer players means less money, which means fewer devs, less content and eventually the death of a game.
    If this is the case, why do so many raid ID? Why do so many reach PvP r50? And of those who do not, who of them would really be impacted too much by these changes? Macros aren't becoming useless - just less useful. A player who isn't investing a lot of effort is subpar by a general standard at any rate, so I don't see how this would change things much.

    I care because "the better player wins" is a fundamental concept in human competition. Triumph over adversity is what makes competition and challenges so gripping. If there is no difficulty, there is no sense of accomplishment, no tension, and no excitement.

    There should be - and always has been in Rift thus far - content which is too difficult for your average player, and for most of the playerbase. There is nothing wrong with this - there should always be a top tier challenge for top tier players. The addition of many new abilities and such in most cases just further differentiates a top-tier player of a certain build and a mediocre one - and the distinguishing factor should not be gear. A bad player in good gear should not perform well. Skill should > gear.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    I care because "the better player wins" is a fundamental concept in human competition.
    And this applies to a cooperative MMO how?

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Shattered View Post
    And this applies to a cooperative MMO how?
    There is competition in PvE - guilds competing to best raid bosses first, and people competing to be good enough to beat specific bosses even considering only their own guild. Individuals within a guild seeking to distinguish themselves.

    In PvP... well, I don't think I need to elaborate on why that is competitive.

    If you want an extreme contrast, make raid content so anyone in any gear can clear it, and everyone is done with all of the content in a week or so to make it fair on everyone. How many people do you think will stay? Part of the appeal of a game is fighting to overcome the challenges it offers, and just because you personally may not be competitive does not mean other people are not.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    If this is the case, why do so many raid ID? Why do so many reach PvP r50? And of those who do not, who of them would really be impacted too much by these changes? Macros aren't becoming useless - just less useful. A player who isn't investing a lot of effort is subpar by a general standard at any rate, so I don't see how this would change things much.

    I care because "the better player wins" is a fundamental concept in human competition. Triumph over adversity is what makes competition and challenges so gripping. If there is no difficulty, there is no sense of accomplishment, no tension, and no excitement.

    There should be - and always has been in Rift thus far - content which is too difficult for your average player, and for most of the playerbase. There is nothing wrong with this - there should always be a top tier challenge for top tier players. The addition of many new abilities and such in most cases just further differentiates a top-tier player of a certain build and a mediocre one - and the distinguishing factor should not be gear. A bad player in good gear should not perform well. Skill should > gear.
    You want skill > gear because you THINK you are just that good...but you are not. If you were that good you would be 8/8 ID instead of 7/8. You want gear to be less decisive because you lack the skill to get the top gear. Hey...have you considered using macros to help you get 8/8? You may not be elite enough to do it without macros.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fidelias View Post
    They will lose players in the world you envision. Not everyone wants to invest a lot of effort into a game. If you cut a large portion of you players off from content because it is too hard they will get bored and leave.

    Why should you care? Fewer players means less money, which means fewer devs, less content and eventually the death of a game.
    I think this is more than a little extreme. I can think of no MMO that had as much macroability for chaining abilities as Rift does on live and I can also think of no game that can say the lack of said macro system was the result of a subscription drop.

    Lets also look at rogues. For NB builds I have added one button and tbh I probably don't need that. Assassin basically has Bloodstalker + performance and I have an extra button IF I am using a build that adds fiery spike as an additiona DoT.

    This is actually why I think the hub bub is silly. There have been changes but it seems to be a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Dysturbed View Post
    You want skill > gear because you THINK you are just that good...but you are not. If you were that good you would be 8/8 ID instead of 7/8. You want gear to be less decisive because you lack the skill to get the top gear. Hey...have you considered using macros to help you get 8/8? You may not be elite enough to do it without macros.
    Do I even need to list out the logical fallacies this falls under?

  20. #140
    Just think of all of us old geezers with arthritis in our hands from pounding keyboards since UO. 6 - 7 button's to mash to maintain a rotation is flat painful. Just bought a G21 to prepare for the expansion i'm probably going to need it.

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