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  1. #1

    Energy Starvation

    I noticed today when I was parsing with my 54 Para/12 WL/0 RB that I was getting energy starved really quickly. I don't know why they nerfed Warrior energy regen, since I thought it was perfectly fine the way it was, but other specs seems energy starved too. I think that they should keep the energy regen thats on live now.

  2. #2
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    I arelady started a energy problems thread below

    atm some specs are having MAJOR power problems ... ie most tank specs and many dps specs,

    esp. if you use a reactionary like flesh rip/ the new one (bm) turn the blade(para) or the paladins sehild ones ect.

    yet theres 51 para (7-8) or 15 rb (7-8 tempest) both working well for me and people are getting 9k dps in raids / 6k dps st on dummys and are not power starved
    seems if you get the ap reduction from rb it really helps aswell as the ap gain from champ if your using aoe's

    wtb old champ ap regen!

  3. #3
    If you're using flurry then that would explain not having the energy problem

  4. #4
    You mean they nerfed Warrior regen to give you guys Rogue problems?..... I dont believe it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Power starvation is for the most part non-existant for single target tanking and only prevalent in select DPS builds. The primary exception is Warlord/Riftblade I believe, but Atrius is well aware of it.

  6. #6
    Junior Member Xenophon's Avatar
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    Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Power starvation is for the most part non-existant for single target tanking and only prevalent in select DPS builds. The primary exception is Warlord/Riftblade I believe, but Atrius is well aware of it.
    One of the reasons for the energy is that Grim statisfaction has been changed to proc off ae abilities and not crits.

  7. #7
    Personally, I think the problem of balancing small energy pools with high regen is that it is too easy to get either too much regen (as it is on Live) and too little (for some specs in Beta). The only way to get a better balance is to increase the energy pools to a much larger size, reducing the regen and making sure all the ability costs are adjusted to a larger energy pool.

    Basically, this will allow people a guaranteed 'runtime' in which they can go nuts with whatever build, but at some point, they will starve. Instead of 30 seconds or less, it can be adjusted to be 1-2 minutes instead. Now, the goal is not to get large mana reserves like mages and clerics, but something more along the lines of just bigger energy pools to work with.

    Highly, highly unlikely that this can be changed and balanced this late into the development of the expansion, but it should at least serve as food for thought for later attempts at rebalancing energy pools/resources.

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    Seems they fixed rogue power problems and just reverted our problems back to a few versions ago....

    I partly blame the lack of cooldowns on a lot of abilities.

  9. #9
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    I have been testing DPS specs on my warrior, rogue, mage, and cleric.

    Cleric - Infinite mana in most DPS specs
    Mage - Infinite mana in most DPS specs
    Rogue - better energy management than Live for most specs

    Warrior - Energy starved for every DPS spec I have tried. Will run out of energy within 60 sec.

    I remember when Warrior energy was this bad, but that was several patches ago.

  10. #10
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    Energy starvation is a huge problem and needs to be fixed. This is probably the biggest issue for warriors in the Beta right now.

    This needs to be fixed ASAP.

  11. #11
    I agree. Any number/spec will be irrelevant. Starvation must go before dps/hps balance can properly occur

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragosani View Post
    Seems they fixed rogue power problems and just reverted our problems back to a few versions ago....

    I partly blame the lack of cooldowns on a lot of abilities.
    Rogue energy isnt any better. Its worse then before.

  13. #13
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    Key here is to not use offGCD abiltys and use FLurry/cornerd beast or tempest channel ect.

    never have power problems that way...... besides flurry is op atm XD

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    Rogue energy isnt any better. Its worse then before.
    This is actually untrue.

    Standard rotations 5 builders + finisher:
    Live: -26
    Live w/ LE: -9
    Beta: -16
    Beta w/LE: -9.2

    So energy is definitely better for rogue in Beta than live.
    Starvation ratio on normal attacks went from 1.25 (30/24) to 1.2 (24/20) for rogues from live to beta.

    Warrior starvation ratio on beta is 1.11 (20/18) which is actually better than rogues for normal attacks. Warriors from my testing regen 12 power per sec or 18 power per GCD.

    For basic rotations either 3 builders or 1 builder + 1 follow up and a finisher the rotation energy looks like this for warriors:
    RB: -3
    Para: -6
    Para + RB: -2.25
    RB w/ LE: +.75
    Para w/ LE: -3
    Para + RB w/ LE: +.57
    Champ AoE: -19.2
    Champ AoE w/ LE: -14.64

    The main difference is that most of the warrior souls have a long duration, high damage, CP generating channel that is very energy positive: Cornered Beast, Lightning Torrent, and Flurry. CB generates 48 Power with LT and Flurry generating 52 energy.

    For Para/Tempest this works out to an additional ~1.73 power/s in a proper rotation or ~10 power every 6s which makes all your Para and Tempest builds net energy positive in basic rotations. Champ still ends up loosing 8-12 Power for rotation.

    Deep RB w/ oGCD finishers could probably use some love. BM should be roughly the same as RB without oGCD finishers as long as their are enough points to put 7 into RB, but it probably wouldn't hurt to give BM a pet ability deep into the tree that generates power for the master.
    oGCD RB: -21
    oGCD RB w/ LE: -17.25
    So quick burst should probably reduce the energy costs of bursts to enable the oGCD bursts to be usable. Realistically, something on the order of a 50% reduction in burst cost OR have Quick Burst increase the effectiveness of surging energy by 100% (aka 50% chance of 50% reduction). Else Quick burst just results in an overall loss of DPS as the number of GCDs required will expand rapidly back to 4 as energy starvation sets in to the steady state and the bursts will do 40% less damage.

    Both Rogues and Warriors will eventually suffer from starvation if they continuously use oGCD abilities and high cost abilities though, even in a raid setting and this does appear by design. They should be used intelligently when they will maximize DPS and not continuously spammed.

    If someone wants to do the math for tanking builds, then be my guest. And if anyone has any contradictory info that says power regen is not 12/s or 18/gcd then also, please correct me.

  15. #15
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    Fix warrior energy issues. Warriors need more energy regen across the board.

    Theorycraft all you want but if players run out of energy a few seconds into the fight and cannot do anything.... this equals = no fun. Is the goal of the game to have fun or stand in place using auto attacks because your abilities do not work.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    This is actually untrue.
    All of your math does not matter at all. If you starve at 10 seconds or 20 seconds it does not matter. What matters if that you WILL starve and there is no way to recover from that other then an outside source. You cant spam a weaker attack and gain energy. There is no real good mechanic to help rogues energy. Its not any better then what live has.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Power starvation is for the most part non-existant for single target tanking and only prevalent in select DPS builds. The primary exception is Warlord/Riftblade I believe, but Atrius is well aware of it.
    So what you are saying is that we are going back from aoe tanking and some action, to single target tanking but the same time we got some reduction in cc abilities.
    We are going back to, warrior tanks, cleric heals, mage controls, rogue does dmg. Basically back to where we started from. Dunno if that is the right way to explore, i know it is a lot exaggerated what i have written but that is the feeling that i get at the moment. Of course real data collection can only start after the official release of the expansion.

    Till yet tanking was ok in SL, besides energy starvation, aggro was enough even if you had to hit 5 buttons more then you used too, dmg was way over the top, tank spec did as much dmg as my live dmg spec that was just nuts. Ok health of the mobs was a lot higher then even on ember island in the SL lands, so some more dmg might be needed. But still it it does not feel right.

    Maybe i am getting old...

    brgds

    CB

  18. #18
    Junior Member Morwath's Avatar
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    Whats the point of yellow bar if it never runs out...?
    You have no CDs now on many abilities, but that doesn't mean you should mindlessly spam them.

  19. #19
    What's the point of a blue bar if it never runs out?

    Because that's what it's like for mages and clerics right now.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Morwath View Post
    Whats the point of yellow bar if it never runs out...?
    You have no CDs now on many abilities, but that doesn't mean you should mindlessly spam them.
    How does one not mindlessly press buttons? Do we have to chant some fancy words as we press each button? Do we have to solve a sudoku puzzle whilst performing a 15 button rotation in melee and avoiding all the bad? Please, enlighten us.

    And before you talk about energy/resource management, there's very little in the means of active regen CDs. At best, I can only think of Flurry and similar channelling moves as an energy regen means, as they allow one to do damage and recover energy in the process. 51Para/15RB is an example of a spec that can keep energy levels under control. However, many other specs, especially solo'ing/levelling specs, don't have that capability.

    Having a resource that simply depletes with little to actually manage the depletion is just bad design.

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