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Thread: Energy Starvation

  1. #21
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    I think it's appropriate.. what's the point of that energy bar if you can ignore it 100% of the time?

    as live went through its paces.. warriors were less and less required to manage their abilities, able to spam w/e they wanted with no consequence today. And no.. fact is.. rogues on beta are seemingly more staved than on live.. but really this is negated by good ability management, spamming some op ability (or perceived op) should not be possible.. and they have fixed that.

    All classes should have to manage their resources, not just rogues. welcome to class equality

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    I think it's appropriate.. what's the point of that energy bar if you can ignore it 100% of the time?

    as live went through its paces.. warriors were less and less required to manage their abilities, able to spam w/e they wanted with no consequence today. And no.. fact is.. rogues on beta are seemingly more staved than on live.. but really this is negated by good ability management, spamming some op ability (or perceived op) should not be possible.. and they have fixed that.

    All classes should have to manage their resources, not just rogues. welcome to class equality
    Provided that the DPS is equal, I have no problem with that. However, my feeling is that if warriors are having to be mindful of their energy bar, their DPS will drop significantly below other classes in their DPS specs.
    Lemming@Greybriar

  3. #23
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    atm.. parses are showing warrior topping those "charts..

    even tempest is hitting harder st dmg from 35 meters than ranger all while managing their energy pretty good for 10 minute parses..

  4. #24
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    Requiring energy management is fine provided that Living Energy/Fervor are both removed from the game, so that you can balance Warrior DPS without having to take into account energy regen from other classes.

    With Warrior/Rogue energy being very very small pools, basically energy regen is the difference between full DPS and twiddling my thumbs. For mana users, mana regen is the difference between running OOM in 3m or 5m. In a 3m fight, they don't need to worry about regen.

    Warriors need to worry about regen in any encounter longer than 30s.

  5. #25
    While we don't have access to it right now, the situation would be even worse for a 61 Warlord that makes their GCD 1 second. They get absolutely nothing to compensate for the fact that they are using abilities 50% more often. And 51 RB should NOT be suffering starvation issues from a simple 3 builder 1 finisher rotation, even if that finisher is off the GCD that they had to talent to have it that way.

  6. #26
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    Energy is a big problem, espically for builds with reactives. I don't really see why there are so many of the available when you will be powerstarved so quickly if you use them at all. If anything the reactive skills should cost almost nothing to use (if not just being 0 power cost)

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    I think it's appropriate.. what's the point of that energy bar if you can ignore it 100% of the time?

    as live went through its paces.. warriors were less and less required to manage their abilities, able to spam w/e they wanted with no consequence today. And no.. fact is.. rogues on beta are seemingly more staved than on live.. but really this is negated by good ability management, spamming some op ability (or perceived op) should not be possible.. and they have fixed that.

    All classes should have to manage their resources, not just rogues. welcome to class equality
    Don't think I have ever seen a useful post from you nor have I seen one that doesn't mention how bad off rogues are especially when you post in the warrior forums..

    with that said the power efficiency of specs (outside of tank specs) seems to be heavily reliant on the off gcd skills... para is fine but when you get into specs like rb and bm the reactives destroy all flow of the specs... luckily this was only a first pass with the beta weekend and power numbers on abilities can easily be changed as well as many other aspects of the system...

    Keep on workin Atrius, you have a good start, but there is much more work to do it seems!

  8. #28
    Deep RB and Warlord are examples were the souls have high energy requirements, but little means to actually adequately address said power drain. Whereas with Paragon or Tempest, you can manage the energy drain with Flurry etc, how does one manage power drain when you have talents that reduce the GCD or give you access to oGCD reactives/finishers?

    With oGCD finishers in deep RB, that is effectively your rotation getting directly affected. You can't just not use your finishers, or you hamstring your DPS. With Warlord having so many utilities for solo'ing, it seems strange that it lacks the utility to give it the means to manage its energy drain.

    This is the point of the energy management issues. You have specs which have the capability to manage power drain, but a lot of other specs don't, like with the tank souls and Deep RB. CD moves or abilities that give a net gain in Power. If people are really serious about energy management, they should stop the whole "empty bars are supposed to be there" arguments. Empty resource pools that deplete too quickly are no fun, especially when the only control you have over that depletion is "to not attack as much".

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sekhmet the Fierce View Post
    This is the point of the energy management issues. You have specs which have the capability to manage power drain, but a lot of other specs don't, like with the tank souls and Deep RB. CD moves or abilities that give a net gain in Power. If people are really serious about energy management, they should stop the whole "empty bars are supposed to be there" arguments. Empty resource pools that deplete too quickly are no fun, especially when the only control you have over that depletion is "to not attack as much".
    I have to manage my mana as a mage. Deal with it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domey View Post
    I have to manage my mana as a mage. Deal with it.
    And charge

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Domey View Post
    I have to manage my mana as a mage. Deal with it.
    Please point out where in my post I said anything about not managing energy/power/mana and come back once you've improved your reading comprehension, because you are clearly lacking it.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    This is actually untrue.
    All of your math does not matter at all. If you starve at 10 seconds or 20 seconds it does not matter. What matters if that you WILL starve and there is no way to recover from that other then an outside source. You cant spam a weaker attack and gain energy. There is no real good mechanic to help rogues energy. Its not any better then what live has.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sekhmet the Fierce View Post
    Empty resource pools that deplete too quickly are no fun, especially when the only control you have over that depletion is "to not attack as much".
    Not attacking is a form of energy management, kind of like how mages can STOP DPSING to channel their mana regens.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Domey View Post
    Not attacking is a form of energy management, kind of like how mages can STOP DPSING to channel their mana regens.
    Not attacking and actively channeling a regen skill are very different, mostly in that the latter doesn't make you feel like crap and makes managing your resource dynamic and involves some level of skill of when to use it.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Domey View Post
    Not attacking is a form of energy management, kind of like how mages can STOP DPSING to channel their mana regens.
    Stop for a moment. Right there. Now, let us apply some thought and analysis:

    kind of like how mages can STOP DPSING to channel their mana regens.
    channel their mana regens.
    mana regens
    Mages have access to abilities that allow them to... MANAGE their resource! Well done. Thank you for so eloquently pointing that out. A calling is given a mechanic of some sort to assist in directly addressing shortage of resource in order to prolong its uptime.

    Now, if another calling can deplete its own resource pool in a matter of seconds, then there really isn't much in terms of margin for management. And if your power hungry soul has no manner or mechanic to address high power drain, then there is no management. This goes for rogues and warriors. Small buffer but high regen resources work on managing the rate of regeneration, but to manage this effectively and actively requires there being abilities that one can use to create a net gain in power usage whilst still doing what you are supposed to be doing (whether it be tanking, DPS'ing or solo'ing). If the tank stop attacking a boss or pack of trash mobs, he/she could effectively lose their aggro, and that would mean your squishy self would be going splat soon after.

    That is the crux of the problem. The lack of active management in a number of souls. If people want more skillful gameplay or want to argue about this whole significance of resource management, then instead of stating "Deal with it", be more constructive and actually advocate mechanics for people to utilise in order to achieve what you are trying to espouse: that of Managing Your Mana™.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sekhmet the Fierce View Post
    That is the crux of the problem. The lack of active management in a number of souls. If people want more skillful gameplay or want to argue about this whole significance of resource management, then instead of stating "Deal with it", be more constructive and actually advocate mechanics for people to utilise in order to achieve what you are trying to espouse: that of Managing Your Mana™.
    Maybe something along the lines of. X Ability increases power regen by Y ammout for Z seconds, reducing the warriors damage by 20% for the duration

  17. #37
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    The issue with energy regen does not make the game more complicated nor does it interject energy managment issues in your rotation. It is so extreme and happens so fast it ruins the calling. Saying the energy management issues in Beta were good for the calling is just plain wrong. As a warrior you run out of energy so fast it is not a question of managing anything. Warriors needs a huge buff in energy regen to even be playable.


    Trion -> You need to increase warrior energy regen to make some soul combinations even playable. This is only the start. The lack of energy regen for warriors is so extreme it ruins the calling. It needs to be fixed.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domey View Post
    Maybe something along the lines of. X Ability increases power regen by Y ammout for Z seconds, reducing the warriors damage by 20% for the duration
    You are a mage on the warrior forums advocating changes that dimish the enjoyment and playability of the warrior class. Why do you care?

    Get lost.... Bye Bye.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond View Post
    While we don't have access to it right now, the situation would be even worse for a 61 Warlord that makes their GCD 1 second. They get absolutely nothing to compensate for the fact that they are using abilities 50% more often. And 51 RB should NOT be suffering starvation issues from a simple 3 builder 1 finisher rotation, even if that finisher is off the GCD that they had to talent to have it that way.
    I think the point of the GCD reduction abilities is to be used intelligently with raid wide burst DPS abilities. You plan to use them when Flaring Power, WL/Bard %damage boost, and Verse of Joy get dropped at the same time, allowing for a massive increase in DPS.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    I think the point of the GCD reduction abilities is to be used intelligently with raid wide burst DPS abilities. You plan to use them when Flaring Power, WL/Bard %damage boost, and Verse of Joy get dropped at the same time, allowing for a massive increase in DPS.
    Errr. The warlord will not have enough energy to fire off abilties. It is that bad. Even with raid buffs and energy regen I cannot see the class functioning. Trion just needs to buff warrior energy regen in the next Beta and when it goes live. This is not like an impossible fix.

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