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Thread: VK and Pacts

  1. #1
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    VK and Pacts

    Is anyone else having issues gaining pacts with VK?

    As an experiment I just pulled a mob and let him whale on me. It took 1m 42s to get to 10 stacks. And they came dangerously close to falling off entirely a few times.

    Now the talents are gone to gain pacts when we hit someone, how are we supposed to gain pacts? Am I mis-using the soul or is it broken?

    VK is my fave tanking tree on live and not liking it at all in bet :/

  2. #2
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    The cleanse gives a pact, even if there isn't anything to cleanse. But yeah i have ended up going 41 points into vk in my build just for 1/3 ambient engorgement. Too easy to let stacks drop and too slow to build otherwise :/

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    I don't think VK will be a very viable spec until you hit level 60 due to how hard it is to gain pacts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evcel View Post
    The cleanse gives a pact, even if there isn't anything to cleanse. But yeah i have ended up going 41 points into vk in my build just for 1/3 ambient engorgement. Too easy to let stacks drop and too slow to build otherwise :/
    Yeah, every other cleanse in the game is a smart cleanse, ours goes off regardless. Can get 1 pact every 10s I suppose and aggro seems to be high enough to be able to stick it in rotation.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    I don't think VK will be a very viable spec until you hit level 60 due to how hard it is to gain pacts.
    So no VK hybrid tanks then

  5. #5
    The removal of many of the mana drain related talents has seriously hurt vk's pact generation. It's overall looking like a poor move, making the soul subpar for anything other than very deep tanking.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Leif View Post
    The removal of many of the mana drain related talents has seriously hurt vk's pact generation. It's overall looking like a poor move, making the soul subpar for anything other than very deep tanking.
    More like the removal of Pact Conversion

  7. #7
    Senior Member Primalthirst's Avatar
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    I'm going to do a bit of playing around with my tanking stuff later today.
    I'll see how the Pact generation is, perhaps Void needs to be bumped up to 45% rather than 30% chance.

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    I think that the main issue aside from Pact Conversion being removed is that you cannot gain pacts efficiently for use unless you spec very high into the tree, making VK not too great for a hybrid build or a soul to dump points into. IMO do what primal said, raise the amount on void (so it's more consistent pact generation), or simply bring back pact generation and maybe add a cooldown to it so you can't go too overboard. Another change might be to revert devouring blow to gain pacts.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinnz View Post
    More like the removal of Pact Conversion
    Eh, I could deal without Pact Conversion easily if they changed Devouring Blow back to what it used to be with a mana drain and pact gain, and rolled Insatiable Hunger/Blood From Stone into a single 5/5 talent in t1 or t2.

    Those two changes open up VK for good PVP builds and more diverse solo'ing builds.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Leif View Post
    Eh, I could deal without Pact Conversion easily if they changed Devouring Blow back to what it used to be with a mana drain and pact gain, and rolled Insatiable Hunger/Blood From Stone into a single 5/5 talent in t1 or t2.

    Those two changes open up VK for good PVP builds and more diverse solo'ing builds.
    Personally I'm really glad they moved VK away from mana draining, since it's a completely useless mechanic in any PvE situation and only a few raid bosses even have mana. I did enjoy Pact Conversion though I understand why it was removed, the benefits of pacts weren't really meant to be manually triggered (but they still need to be reliably gained for VK to be viable).

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    From what I saw on VK pact generation from Void. I could be blind but physical abilities never worked, only non-physical. Although tooltip is taking ability damage
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  12. #12
    It also doesn't help that they removed the talents for getting pacts when hitting people. Makes it very hard to use VK in any kind of DPS build because getting hit to gain pacts = death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    I'm going to do a bit of playing around with my tanking stuff later today.
    I'll see how the Pact generation is, perhaps Void needs to be bumped up to 45% rather than 30% chance.
    If we're facing against a none caster basically the only way to gain pacts is get hit. So its very easy to test. Go out in the wild and get hit. 30-45% isn't a big enough change. VK as it is now is useless in a hybrid. We need a reliable pact gaining mechanism, even if it means using a GCD talent.

    Maybe its just bugged, being whaled on my a mob for 1m 42s and it only triggering 10 times doesn't sound like 30%. Should take approximately 35 hits to get to 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raive View Post
    From what I saw on VK pact generation from Void. I could be blind but physical abilities never worked, only non-physical. Although tooltip is taking ability damage
    In beta no, its 30% when taking damage from an ability.
    In live yes, it was, however insatiable hunger / blood from a stone meant you could gain pacts just from whacking things and pretty much always stayed at 10. Maybe it was a bit overboard, you could use up pacts without thinking about it.

    So I can understand the desire to introduce pact management,. However you need to have pacts in the first place to manage them.

  14. #14
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    I actually ran into issues gaining pacts with 26ish in VK. You almost have to go deep VK to reliably gain pacts and even then, if you use pact spending abilities you're survivability dips until you regain those pacts. Although I did find deep VK enjoyable to tank with the shields they offer, which appear to now stack with with cleric shielding XD.

  15. #15
    An easy fix would be to have the 30% chance from Void apply when being hit by an ability AND when hitting with one. Roughly doubles (maybe a little more with Warlord and Paladin oGCD attacks) the chances at getting Pacts for tanks, while also making getting Pacts feasible for DPS without ridiculous amount of points in VK.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond View Post
    An easy fix would be to have the 30% chance from Void apply when being hit by an ability AND when hitting with one. Roughly doubles (maybe a little more with Warlord and Paladin oGCD attacks) the chances at getting Pacts for tanks, while also making getting Pacts feasible for DPS without ridiculous amount of points in VK.
    That would likely work.

    I will mourn the loss of mana draining though, especially with how dominator has a crippling effect on warriors and rogues in pvp on test at the moment.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Leif View Post
    That would likely work.

    I will mourn the loss of mana draining though, especially with how dominator has a crippling effect on warriors and rogues in pvp on test at the moment.
    IMO void knight skills should all mana/energy/power drain in PvP. Perhaps make it a 1hr buff.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinnz View Post
    IMO void knight skills should all mana/energy/power drain in PvP. Perhaps make it a 1hr buff.
    Yea, something like 4% mana/5 power/7 energy per hit might work, accounting for differences in resource generation. Maybe crits draining a bit more? I've always felt TI is too high at 10 power per action, but it is cleansable by comparison.

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