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Thread: Rogue Solo Grinding completely gimped without Rift Scavenger

  1. #61
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    Props to the previous two posters. I went out and tried a 51 TT build, which I had been avoiding (I wanted to see if the new soul was not NECESSARY to effectively solo the way rogues could pre-1.11). It appears it is. Tactician is a better soloer than even bard. I put my sub points in 8 RS and 8 Bard with the idea of maxing out the healing received from Curative Engine and it worked.

    Gather everything in sight with empyrean bolts, blow torrent primer, macro necrotic core to the three torrents, then by the time I do a round of glacial, infernal, and necrotic, the mobs are dead and I'm either at full health or near full. A motif of regeneration easily tops me off between pulls.

    I still support rift scavenger being returned to the game, however, so solo rogues who want to perform well are not pigeonholed into tactician. You have to admit...the availability of rift scavenger opens up many other build options (more importantly, fun-feeling playstyles) that you just don't have with heavy bard/tactician builds. I still advocate the option. Rogues deserve that flexibility.

  2. #62
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    Some other things I will mention about 51 TT is the dps is surprisingly high. I can use the exactly same rotations on a ST fight, just throw in an empyrean bolt and another torrent primer if energy reserves are running low. The most effective rogue solo build is also a decent support build AND aoe dps build...who knew? Well, my eyes are open. But it still feels like a pigeon-holing of sorts.

    The downside I see (with limited playtime on TT) is rays are pretty much useless. Even with Energy Alteration I have no inclination to deviate from using torrents/primer and the occasional bolt. The output of rays is just terrible, cast time or not. Beams seem to be iffy. They have good damage, unlike rays, but still, I see little reason to use them.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    it literally doesn't take that much.. you can go any soul for play style you want, even assassin (which would be odd, since it lacks any aoe) as long as you put just enough for curative engine and restorative/necrotic cores.. the engine alone I swear, will heal you more than enough.. especially since it now ticks for all hits on the rogue. If you like the melee playstyle.. try full bd or even nb with tact sub (stealth is still handy sometimes).

    anyways. it may be tweaked more, since launch is still a while from here.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    Beams and necrotic bolt: for dotting primary targets/ engaging targets not under torrent effects as well
    Torrents: Primary dmg/healing
    Bolts: (the builder type only) for proccing 5cp and using primer
    Cores/remotes: in group settings, used when off cd, and in a 4 part class rotation
    curative blast: not used, as it is a waste of cp, procs nothing, and equates to hps loss
    "Rays": not used.. as the time spent to obtain the 5cp to use them is a dps/hps loss and the buff gained does not justify the loss of hps/dps during said time

    essentially.. use bolts/beams to grab mobs up, use beams before using torrents so dots are ticking during torrents, drop a core once in the general area of performing aoe dmg doa 4 torrent, 1 bolt, 1 primer rotation with core/beams/remotes in between when off cd, forget about anything else.

  5. #65
    Rogue atm have almost no real heals ... ( bard + tactician = joke ) , we have some good damage but again ..mitigation/defense is very weak compared with mages/warriors or clerics.

    PS: Rogue class dont need a weak hybrid mechanical **** soul, we need strong heals and much more damage if we dont get mitigation
    Atm sin is dead in pvp u die in seconds ,only somehow good souls are nb and riftstalker ..but WHY the **** we are forced to play tank to have some chance to enjoy the game in pvp ??

  6. #66
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    go play a tactician/marksman/bard

    cadence hits around 1200-2000 per tick, torrents up to 4000/tic (tested @ 56)

    try 2 die, i never was able to

    Build with cadence and finish with empyreum ray

    Build i used:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...T8FAEGF1aE/vh0

  7. #67
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    adendum (no edit allowed)

    @ 60 go http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...8FAFlkxiGg/vh0

  8. #68
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    ^^ ignore that, while cadence does more healing, in any form , than the procs from empyrean bolt spam, it still has reduced range, no aoe component in that form, AND, is not even needed, as well as being a healing loss.

    Tactician, using torrent alone, does more dmg/healing st than cadence, and only more so when more targets are there. now.. 18 points or so in mm ups tact range to 35m and Vastly improves the dmg of all your channel and cast time abilities (which is almost ALL of tactician abilities). The other abilities in tactician are a waste of time to use. drop the core needed, make sure curative core is enabled, tab tag mobs via beams and bolts, then torrent your way to victory.. kiting not even needed, the more mobs the merrier.

    torrent heals > invig soul from cadence in all accounts, but never have I needed torrent healing while aoe grinding mobs solo, the engine and cores all do more than enough. in terms of dps.. st or aoe, all tact dmg>bard dmg.

    + you can go to empyrean engine and use bolts to aoe pull on the run, then back to curative engine or w/e when it's time to settle down.

    if there is a moment, at all.. where you need major healing for w/e reason.. a single healing torrent will overheal you 100%.

    torrent, torrent, torrent, torrent, empyrean bolt, primer drop cores/remotes/beams off cd or when needed.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodcat View Post
    go play a tactician/marksman/bard

    cadence hits around 1200-2000 per tick, torrents up to 4000/tic (tested @ 56)

    try 2 die, i never was able to

    Build with cadence and finish with empyreum ray

    Build i used:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...T8FAEGF1aE/vh0
    torrents> all rays.. so um.. why would you use rays?

  10. #70
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    Curative Torrent along with many other heals have dropped down significantly with this beta today.
    Now takes around 30-40 seconds to full heal at tuned values. 300hps at level 56

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    ^^ ignore that, while cadence does more healing, in any form , than the procs from empyrean bolt spam, it still has reduced range, no aoe component in that form, AND, is not even needed, as well as being a healing loss.

    Tactician, using torrent alone, does more dmg/healing st than cadence, and only more so when more targets are there. now.. 18 points or so in mm ups tact range to 35m and Vastly improves the dmg of all your channel and cast time abilities (which is almost ALL of tactician abilities). The other abilities in tactician are a waste of time to use. drop the core needed, make sure curative core is enabled, tab tag mobs via beams and bolts, then torrent your way to victory.. kiting not even needed, the more mobs the merrier.

    torrent heals > invig soul from cadence in all accounts, but never have I needed torrent healing while aoe grinding mobs solo, the engine and cores all do more than enough. in terms of dps.. st or aoe, all tact dmg>bard dmg.

    + you can go to empyrean engine and use bolts to aoe pull on the run, then back to curative engine or w/e when it's time to settle down.

    if there is a moment, at all.. where you need major healing for w/e reason.. a single healing torrent will overheal you 100%.

    torrent, torrent, torrent, torrent, empyrean bolt, primer drop cores/remotes/beams off cd or when needed.
    #
    thank u sir being rude...

    this is only the most simple spec.... and is chiled 2 play.

    i got 5 other speccs doing more dmg but that one most simple and a nobrainer

    2 keys in single and if u what 2-3 extra torrents for aoe ... and perfect if u got 2-3 mates to play with

  12. #72
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    You may or may not have noticed, but the Riftstalker Boosted Recovery talent has gotten another effect tacked onto it now.

    When you kill an enemy you'll recieve 50/100/150% of your AP as healing over x (need to check that number next time I'm in) seconds. Bet that'll open up a couple more solo specs?

  13. #73
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    yeah.. the changes Iv'e seen today, ontop of reducing my level down (but still higher than the same toon on live) was that most abilities are hitting for less dmg than on live, despite being a higher level. the difference is that on live, at lvl 50, i am getting 600-1k more dmg per ability in bard over beta at lvl 51 today. also noticed, especially on deep tact.. that the self healing from curative engine was not enough to support grinding more than 4 mobs at a time at lvl 50, anything more significantly had me reaching for the oh sheet button. Comparably.. I can still grind nearly 18 mobs of the same level in my mage and cleric, and still solo rifts well above my level. using the silly test gear for lvl 50 from fluffy on my war (its mostly green) I was able to reach 7.6k st from 35 meters.. something not even melee rogues can do in raid. tossing on BiS gears got me into the 9k ballpark...all from range (I admit.. temp is kinda fun to play, and with self healing and reflect options, doesn't slow down)

    powechord is doing soo much less than on live, that it now does less dmg than an unbuffed cadenza.. pushing it further into the corner of useless abilities (much like emp bolt spam and tact finishers other than primer.. lol.. the best finisher in tact does no dmg......) torrents are still doing ok dmg, far more than any of the other abilities tact has, while testing aoe healing for raid is difficult to do, and the math shows it not doing well even though it is supposed to heal 10 at a time.. (imo... curative blast needs to proc primer amplification like the other finishers do, and the dmg and healing components from modified empyrean bolt needs doubled at least.

    in the end.. both souls have a few key abilities, that are clearly meant for the rotation, but are essentially unused as their output does not warrant their use.

    some how this ninja nerf tweak put us with 1 foot in the grave, hopefully it gets bumped before the end of beta 3

  14. #74
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodcat View Post
    go play a tactician/marksman/bard

    cadence hits around 1200-2000 per tick, torrents up to 4000/tic (tested @ 56)

    try 2 die, i never was able to

    Build with cadence and finish with empyreum ray

    Build i used:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...T8FAEGF1aE/vh0

    yeah. cadence does more than that at 50 with a better spec, but with all the massively higher dps and a ton of healing tools already in tact.. why use cadence at all?, especially without MO on it.. cadence is just like a beam, except with a beam you can be at 35m range, you can dmg everything between you and it.. and you can do other things while the beam is in effect... cadence lets you do only 1 thing, at less range, effecting only 1 mob at that low a level.

    not trying to be rude about it, but your build boggles... especially at lvl 60??, and though not the best choice, those 2 extra in mm, they are at least providing more dps boost than anything you put in bard. also.. with soo much into bard on top of tact, yeah, going down shouldn't happen, as those are the best 2 for +healing, no other souls in rogue boost healing as much.

    but gl anyways. have fun.

  15. #75
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    Even at 50 going RS/BD/Tac is pretty damn effective outside the new zone. I go to EI and I feel little to no difference. However in the new zones it is indeed a different world. This however appears to be more a matter of dealing with the new zones mobs. Similar to what happened when people first stepped foot onto EI.

    I seem to remember similar complaints then, the difference was that a much liked ability had not been removed to cast the blame on so people put it where it should be...more difficult mobs, and this is how it should be when you move onto the next step is it not?

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Even at 50 going RS/BD/Tac is pretty damn effective outside the new zone. I go to EI and I feel little to no difference. However in the new zones it is indeed a different world. This however appears to be more a matter of dealing with the new zones mobs. Similar to what happened when people first stepped foot onto EI.

    I seem to remember similar complaints then, the difference was that a much liked ability had not been removed to cast the blame on so people put it where it should be...more difficult mobs, and this is how it should be when you move onto the next step is it not?
    For lower levels, max ST with 4 in tact is the way to go. Once you get higher level and into zone with better mob groupings, 36-41 RS/BD/TT hybrid will cut through packs of mobs incredibly fast. Stalker phase of course. GP is a complete loss now compared to SP for grinding.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veniform View Post
    Props to the previous two posters. I went out and tried a 51 TT build, which I had been avoiding (I wanted to see if the new soul was not NECESSARY to effectively solo the way rogues could pre-1.11). It appears it is. Tactician is a better soloer than even bard. I put my sub points in 8 RS and 8 Bard with the idea of maxing out the healing received from Curative Engine and it worked.

    Gather everything in sight with empyrean bolts, blow torrent primer, macro necrotic core to the three torrents, then by the time I do a round of glacial, infernal, and necrotic, the mobs are dead and I'm either at full health or near full. A motif of regeneration easily tops me off between pulls.

    I still support rift scavenger being returned to the game, however, so solo rogues who want to perform well are not pigeonholed into tactician. You have to admit...the availability of rift scavenger opens up many other build options (more importantly, fun-feeling playstyles) that you just don't have with heavy bard/tactician builds. I still advocate the option. Rogues deserve that flexibility.
    Are you able to link your build??

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by liso View Post
    Are you able to link your build??
    It looked like this at level 50. http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b.../TkGkEGix4/vgE

    I will be retesting it today with the curative engine nerf and boosted recovery upgrade. Before these changes it was good (if not as good as tact/mm). Will report my impressions back soon.


    Edit: The curative engine nerf was significant. A pack of mobs could easily take me down to half health before I'd kill them and boosted recovery could kick in (boosted recovery is quite nice now, it is essentially a weaker, but still viable rift scavenger).

    I'm running this now and so far the results feel much better than the new tactician, and personally I am even liking it slightly better than the old cuisinart.

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...0/Tu/xkE8khpx8

    The mitigation is solid even against large packs. The single target and aoe is comparable to or better than old cuisinart. The mobility is excellent.

    My overall impression of the changes to curative engine is disappointment. It does not seem to be scaling as it logically should be. I seem to gain the same benefit with 4 points in tactician as I do with 40 points in tactician. This, in my eyes (since tactician really shined as a soloer), now makes tactician an offsoul only. Want more heal power for your bard? Tactician will provide. Want more tankiness for your tank? Tactician will provide. Want more aoe punch for your sab? Tactician will provide. Want to solo, provide raid or 5-man support with your 51 tactician? Meh. Bard is better in most regards (heals, buffs, survivability).

    So I am happy with boosted recovery. Cuisinart is back (possibly better than ever) along with any high ST dps kill spec for soloing. The bad news is deep tactician now seems like it has no real role in which it shines. Jack of all trades, master of none? Okay. That seems to be where it's at now.

  19. #79
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    Thanks Veniform...after trying a few different combinations, the last build you suggested feels most comfortable at the moment. I was amazed and a little saddened that by using tactician as just an off-soul, I found myself being able to take on a lot more mobs consistently. I am really looking forward to any changes they make to tactician before it goes live o.O

  20. #80
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    I'm not a numbers gal, so if you analysts and number-crunchers could help me out with this, I'd appreciate it. This is what I've come up with based upon Veniform's build (above). I would gladly accept suggestions for improvement. So far I'm fairly pleased with it, but not quite as comfy as I was with my old Riftstalker build.

    Single Target + Reactives Macro:

    #show Keen Strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Reprisal
    cast Precision Strike
    cast Keen Strike


    AoE Macro:

    #show Shadow Blitz
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Shadow Blitz
    cast Rift Disturbance
    cast Twin Strike


    Teleport Macro:

    #show Flash of Steel
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Shadow Assault
    cast Flash of Steel
    cast Shadow Stalk


    Single Target Rotation:
    1) Teleport Macro
    2) Double Coup: for increased damage of Keen Strike, Dauntless Strike, and reactives for 15 seconds
    3) Single Target/Reactive macro to 5 combo points
    4) Dauntless Strike to increase Crit Hit chance by 5% for 60 seconds
    5) Single Target/Reactive macro to 5 combo points
    6) Guarded Steel finisher

    Repeat 5 & 6, refreshing Dauntless Strike when it wears off.


    Two or More Targets:
    1) AoE Macro to 5 combo points (ignore reactives)
    2) Compound Attack finisher (or Dauntless Strike if the buff has worn off)

    Other skills:
    Side Steps
    Weapon Barrage
    Planar Disruption
    (I'm considering putting the two interrupts in a macro, with Weapon Barrage first)

    Buffs:
    Planebound Resilience
    Combat Preparation
    Curative Engine
    Stalker Phase

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