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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Tactician Torrent Issue

  1. #21
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    ^^ this.. needs widening.. alot..

    in raid mechanics.. it's often best to either be in a melee stack, or a ranged stack.. being of on some other tangent in the effort to effect more dps will most likely lead to a death...

    those training dummies that got moved around for the warriors... an aoe rogue should be able to hit them..
    the flame thrower is much more like a laser atm.. great range.. but a finite beam of effect.


    also, upgrade energy return

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inshalla View Post
    The aiming on the Torrents is really tough. With the over the shoulder camera, I find myself often aiming just to the right. Additionally, they don't Z-axis reliably. I was fighting mobs near the Obsidian Shore TP on EI and was having difficulties when I would try to fire "uphill" at something with a torrent.
    Torrents are targetless abilities. There is no way to adjust their z-axis functionality. You just position and fire and stuff that's generally in a line in front of you gets hurt.

    Also, to interrupt your torrent, try a stopcasting macro.

  3. #23
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    I'm not getting a debuff on any mobs when I use Glacial Torrent (no stacks of Glacial Chill).

    I've looked at the damage of my Infernal Torrent before and after using Glacial Torrent and not seeing any damage increase.

    I never tried this pre-patch, so I'm not sure if it's developed since then.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    its something you spec into.. what it does is not onlly slow, but effect a stack up to 5 on the mos effected (if you run the full length of the torrent, you will only get a couple stacks if interrupting/stopcasting it.)

    that 5 stack.. means that the infernal torrent will do x amount more dmg to them.. and so once specced.. its effective to alternate between those torrents.. but keep in mind to also dump your torrent overload or you end up gimping the dmg and getting starved.

  5. #25
    I wouldn't mind something to affect torrents on a more fundamental level say maybe a engine kinda like necrotic engine that tweaks the damage but expands the range and a core that mitigates the torrents power a bit and give the benefits or damage to anyone within the area of effect, maybe a toggle-able upgrade to the existing cores Necrotic to affect the damaging torrents and Curative core for the heal torrent. Its a pretty good idea I think there isn't much to rethink, i really like the spray motion both mechanically and visually but the radius is a issue.

    Also someone posted about a visual cue for when Necrotic Torrent gets below 30% Hp, that would be cool i might also suggest a marker for the effective range of cores. I mean ya typically we are usually all closely bunched together in a raid it shouldn't be to much an issue but it wouldn't be a terrible thing to have.

  6. #26
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    Yup it definitely does not hit all mobs in front of you as the tooltip says. It's more like a laser and hits 1, maybe 2 targets if you're lucky. Have tried on mobs in diff. terrain, have tried at the dummies. Dummies which are stacked closely together and it only hits 1.

  7. #27
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    Please update tooltips to include range on the torrents. I notice all ranged ability tooltips are updating nicely to reflect mm's increased range if you spec into it. However torrents aren't displaying their range in their tooltips in the first place. I'm guessing they are 20m base but it would be nice to know for sure.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    and fix them to axtually do some aoe.. not laserbeam things in a 1cm path...

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    ok guys.. after parsing, and parsing, and playing with the soul alot.. it comes to my attention that tactician is very confused about it's abilities.

    as it stands.. to get the buffs you need, you have to use 3 seperate rotations (when healing) to make effective use of the abilities.

    lets assume you spam some cp builder to get 5cp, and then start off with a "Ray" to proc that 30second dmg/heal buff, which effects all up coming dmg and heals (and yes.. spending all that time to get 5 cp only to blow it on a dps finisher to improve healing for a time), then you do the 4 torrent and 1 empyrian bolt spam for the Primer buff.. , now your torrents will finally heal/dmg for their maximum amount, but as a healer.. you also want to use that other instant aoe hot ability.. but it takes 5cp to use..., and after having spent soo much time on torrents.. its about time to refresh the "Ray" procced buff..

    imo.. take Curative blast (the cp using 10 person HoT finisher.. and have it renamed and/or effect as a "Ray", because at the moment it seems awfully confused and alone out there, on it's own, and not particularly contributing to the play style of tactician at all in it's form.

    that one simple change would fix the whole Healing rotation.. allowing tactician to alternate equally between torrent and other abilities


    since dps does not use this, or, shouldn't have to.. it's a non issue on that side of the house.

    also.. the "AOE" factor for torrents is still quite narrow, and not angling up/down slopes.


    hopefully the synergy crystal would make "Rays" instant casts in some way.

  10. #30
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    The biggest issue I have with Torrents is their functionality underwater, and while strafing.

    When you use a Torrent underwater while moving in any direction, it shoots the torrent straight down, thus making you practically immobile in water if you want to use a Torrent.

    When you use a Torrent while strafing, it shoots the Torrent the direction you were facing, which makes strafe kiting impossible when using a torrent.

    The first one is a pretty easy fix I'd imagine. The second one...Not so sure. But, like most people said, increasing the cone of the Torrents would be cool.

  11. #31
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    I like tactician even though it has its flaws... however I haven't used a lot of abilities due to their lack of useful application. Curative blast - practically useless. Empyrean and Necrotic Ray also way too underpowered to use. Empyrean Blast is bad even with that healing effect it can have.

    Torrents are nice and seem to be the only useful thing atm (instead of the single target Necrotic Blast spam under 30%), but once you reach your 10 stacks of exhaustion you are practically useless for 15 seconds since there is nothing worthwile to do while you wait for them to drop off.

    Given any sort of raid situation, you would deal damage for x seconds, then put off your passive heal stuff (with Healing Remote not even proccing on a torrent???) for 3 seconds and basically spam a useless Empyrean Bolt that hurts your flame throwing pride for the next 10 seconds. Throwing your Rays does not even seem useful since you'll need 5 CP to buff your dmg/healing done by 40% anyway before dealing damage again.

    Also, your only useful heal (aside from Curative beam which can be pretty nice) is also a torrent.
    So either you limit your healing done or your damage done. And after you are done limiting yourself you deal extremely mediocre dmg unless your target is under 30%. In that case, spam one button.

    Nice soul, I like it and I will play it to level to 60, but please tweak/ change a few things. maybe take 0.4 seconds off torrent exhaustion for every CP used on Rays, give Empyrean Bolt better healing and / or dmg or a useful proc or also the ability to reduce exhaustion by 0.5 seconds. Oh yeah, same thing for Curative Blast.

    I mean you probably want tacticians not so much in the torrent only corner but they are fun and atm require good positioning and some skill (wouldn't hurt to at least give them a bit of a cone or an area of 1x30 square meters (or whatever the actual range might be) in front of the rogue.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrordar View Post
    I like tactician even though it has its flaws... however I haven't used a lot of abilities due to their lack of useful application. Curative blast - practically useless. Empyrean and Necrotic Ray also way too underpowered to use. Empyrean Blast is bad even with that healing effect it can have.

    Torrents are nice and seem to be the only useful thing atm (instead of the single target Necrotic Blast spam under 30%), but once you reach your 10 stacks of exhaustion you are practically useless for 15 seconds since there is nothing worthwile to do while you wait for them to drop off.

    Given any sort of raid situation, you would deal damage for x seconds, then put off your passive heal stuff (with Healing Remote not even proccing on a torrent???) for 3 seconds and basically spam a useless Empyrean Bolt that hurts your flame throwing pride for the next 10 seconds. Throwing your Rays does not even seem useful since you'll need 5 CP to buff your dmg/healing done by 40% anyway before dealing damage again.

    Also, your only useful heal (aside from Curative beam which can be pretty nice) is also a torrent.
    So either you limit your healing done or your damage done. And after you are done limiting yourself you deal extremely mediocre dmg unless your target is under 30%. In that case, spam one button.

    Nice soul, I like it and I will play it to level to 60, but please tweak/ change a few things. maybe take 0.4 seconds off torrent exhaustion for every CP used on Rays, give Empyrean Bolt better healing and / or dmg or a useful proc or also the ability to reduce exhaustion by 0.5 seconds. Oh yeah, same thing for Curative Blast.

    I mean you probably want tacticians not so much in the torrent only corner but they are fun and atm require good positioning and some skill (wouldn't hurt to at least give them a bit of a cone or an area of 1x30 square meters (or whatever the actual range might be) in front of the rogue.

    atm its hps and dps increase to just spam torrent x 4, 1 empyrean bolt, primer, spam torrent again, with beams/cores all dropping off cd


    other than that.. all the other finishers and healing abilities (ahem, curative blast) have no use in this soul the way they are are atm.

  13. #33
    The Rogue Dev feels its ok for his class to suck until all the classes get balanced. While all the other Devs feel its ok for their classes to be overpowered until they get brought down.

    100% of players would rather they play the class with option #2

    Tactictian wont be any good until 4 months+ after SL

  14. #34
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    haha, can you say "hey.. we have a new job for the most undergeared/underperforming rogue!, here you go.. just hit these buffs every 15 seconds and you can do w/e you want in between"

    atm we are having serious doubts this would even be brought into raid.

  15. #35
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    Also, healing spray does not hit yourself while running backwards with it. Just noticed that.

  16. #36
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    I just found out that bolts can actually hit multiple targets in a straight line towards your target.

    Again, I only just found out at lvl 55 that this can happen because it never happened. At least give it of additional hit area oO

  17. #37
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    some of the abilities are named bolt.. but are effective more like Beams, and so anything from you to target (in a very narrow path) gets hit, with the right engine you can have empyrean bolt effect aoe on impact also (but spamming a torrent rotation at the same distance=more dps, just not good for moving about with).

  18. #38
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    Seems like the torrents got more width with the update, can anyone confirm this? Also the "restore health when hit" motor now procs on every attack, makes nice self heal

  19.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrordar View Post
    Seems like the torrents got more width with the update, can anyone confirm this? Also the "restore health when hit" motor now procs on every attack, makes nice self heal
    Yes, I have increased the beam radius from 3 to 4 in this beta event.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Mirimon's Avatar
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    indeed.. self healing mechanics for rogues seems improved to a better level.. for some reason before they were not very effective.. leading to death if not down time.

    need more testing on torrents to see the effectiveness of girth, still do not hit targets up/down slope though.

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