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Thread: Instant Cooldown

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharog View Post
    except in rift after 30 second u only need to do 1 taunt every 8 second to keep agro, most of the time it is ok to watch TV at the same time.
    if you only do threat yes, keeping buffs / debuffs available up gimps your threat.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zix View Post
    I appreciate that we discussed the topic of macros vs. complex rotation vs. movement mechanics etc to death in this thread however what I dont understand is:

    Builder skill A = 10 Damage
    Builder skill B = 20 Damage

    Finisher skill A = 20 Damage
    Finisher skill B = 30 Damage

    All on instant CD, all consume one GCD. Why would you ever use Builder skill A and Finisher skill A?

    Putting everything on instant CD allows for less complex rotations?
    Unless both builders have diferent stackign buffs / debuffs, which is the case atm.

  3. #63
    I agree Sharog, the priority system is what takes more skill than a memorized sequence of key presses. For a melee or ranged character 5-6 is the sweet spot in my opinion. Anything less and it's faceroll, anything more and it just becomes tedious. It almost seems like there has been a role reversal with mage and warrior.
    Correct me if I'm wrong Sharog, but the current top spec on beta is 51para/15rb. I got the buttons down to six last night on the dummies by macro'ing SLI with FB/IB and DT with Flurry. I'm curious as to if that rotation is realisitc in a real time setting, I'm gonna say no because of RB bursts being on GCD. This change makes rotations feel sluggish and choppy. Paragon is already a slow spec on live with it's follow-up system of attacks and delayed AP generation from Weapon Master. Adding in GCD's to RB bursts is an unneccesary change that I would imagine came from PvP whiners who think they were getting blasted because of it. For those who are unaware, the RB burst are essentially the same dmg as a normal finisher, they're just applied in a different way. The presumed "excessive dmg" comes from the elemental aspect of the finisher and not the finisher itself.
    As it stands now, you have to apply the burst buff during one GCD, do no dmg for 1.5secs, then apply the finisher...in what world does this make sense. It's not enough that we may once again be tied to SLI for optimal returns, but to maintain two buffs and one DoT (which btw Setting Moon should have a CD), not clip your follow-up attack, apply a finisher buff, wait 1.5s to apply the finisher all while dealing with melee mechanics is stupid. I'm not asking for faceroll here but some fluidty in the way it plays would be nice.

    Disclaimer: I understand that this is beta and things can change but I higly doubt we aren't going to be tied to SLI again come live

  4. #64
    I take back my previous remarks.

    After much practice over and over again, I am beginning to get used to what TRION is trying to do. I can understand that having a whole bunch of keys to press and watching mechanics is going to be extremely hard, but seriously guys how many of you have actually spent a couple of hours sitting down at the dummy testing it out instead of complaining?

    Personally I am enjoying this because it seems really challenging and I can't wait to see how well I can do in raid situations. Having skills on immediate casts instead of having a cool-down would also allow PVP flexibility, reactionary skills to different situations.

    No don't talk about WoW, TRION's practically handed you their game, learn it. They are giving you a new type of gameplay, suck it up and learn it. Only complaints I have about the Champion Build (not even a complaint) is the fact that our main AOE stuff is above 50, and pretty much the fact that a lot of other builds out there scale far better than the Champion at level 50.

    The 51C/13RB/2BM was the most boring rotation ever, you have 5 really easy buttons to press (1 builder, 1 bleed, 1burst, 1 finisher, cornered beast), I hated the spec but to push DPS in raids, it was needed...

    Yet to tank in Storm Legion, will test it out in a few... Btw I press 13 buttons (just for rotations) for Reaver AOE spec. That's not including situational skills...

  5. #65
    It will still be a learned sequence of key presses so how is that any different that what you are doing now in 13/2. The only difference will be now instead of 5-6 buttons you might have to go 7-8. As I previously stated my opinion is that 5-6 is the sweet spot. My main concern is the lack of fluidity with paragon and RB or just RB's lack of synergy now below 36pts into the soul

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunaii View Post
    I agree Sharog, the priority system is what takes more skill than a memorized sequence of key presses. For a melee or ranged character 5-6 is the sweet spot in my opinion. Anything less and it's faceroll, anything more and it just becomes tedious. It almost seems like there has been a role reversal with mage and warrior.
    Correct me if I'm wrong Sharog, but the current top spec on beta is 51para/15rb. I got the buttons down to six last night on the dummies by macro'ing SLI with FB/IB and DT with Flurry. I'm curious as to if that rotation is realisitc in a real time setting, I'm gonna say no because of RB bursts being on GCD. This change makes rotations feel sluggish and choppy. Paragon is already a slow spec on live with it's follow-up system of attacks and delayed AP generation from Weapon Master. Adding in GCD's to RB bursts is an unneccesary change that I would imagine came from PvP whiners who think they were getting blasted because of it. For those who are unaware, the RB burst are essentially the same dmg as a normal finisher, they're just applied in a different way. The presumed "excessive dmg" comes from the elemental aspect of the finisher and not the finisher itself.
    As it stands now, you have to apply the burst buff during one GCD, do no dmg for 1.5secs, then apply the finisher...in what world does this make sense. It's not enough that we may once again be tied to SLI for optimal returns, but to maintain two buffs and one DoT (which btw Setting Moon should have a CD), not clip your follow-up attack, apply a finisher buff, wait 1.5s to apply the finisher all while dealing with melee mechanics is stupid. I'm not asking for faceroll here but some fluidty in the way it plays would be nice.

    Disclaimer: I understand that this is beta and things can change but I higly doubt we aren't going to be tied to SLI again come live
    the lvl 60 version requires the use of Open the stream, shifting blades, and Combat focus and alacrity, expect some more buttons to be used, so far in real fight it is nightmare to use on trash, on boss fight it is ok if u know the fight, otherwise, hard to adjust when forced out of melee range, however due to the GCD nature of the burst attack, it now offers no penalty if u cant hit the target during the application of burst, which allow u to position better in the meanwhile.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellcross View Post

    Yet to tank in Storm Legion, will test it out in a few... Btw I press 13 buttons (just for rotations) for Reaver AOE spec. That's not including situational skills...
    And you feel this is a positive? I have already decided to bury the Reaver, I don't care if it's good damage, it is very, very boring. It's just playing a Bard but worse because my 'motifs' are 15s long instead of 30s. Most people hate playing a Bard, how making other classes have similar issues is suposed to enhance gameplay I don't quite see it.

    No one finds it ironic that Trion went through the effort of revamping the Bard to remove the terrible motif mechanic only to then apply it to all the other classes? Feels like Bard revenge.

    There is such a thing as adding complexity to make things more fun, and then adding complexity for the sake of it. Managing coldown timings, seperating skills from macros by choice (because the cooldowns are shorter than the duration etc.) all good stuff. Stretching out my hotbar with an army of buttons to press and simply keep cycling through, not what I call enhancing my gameplay.

  8. #68
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    I personally think its a bad change. I as much as the next person dont want a 2 button spam rotation using macros, but if im correct in my messing about the para rotation is an 8 button rotation....8! thats just stupid.

    I would like to see a few abilities put back on a cooldown just to bring the rotation down to around 5 buttons, i think that is manageable and testing at times.

    BAD BAD BAD idea if you ask me. I hope we can get this changed.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragosani View Post
    I personally think its a bad change. I as much as the next person dont want a 2 button spam rotation using macros, but if im correct in my messing about the para rotation is an 8 button rotation....8! thats just stupid.

    I would like to see a few abilities put back on a cooldown just to bring the rotation down to around 5 buttons, i think that is manageable and testing at times.

    BAD BAD BAD idea if you ask me. I hope we can get this changed.
    Is it bad to you or is it bad to the game?

    Manageable is a relative tern. 5 button rotation in a raid environment might be borring for some.

    Introducing a learning curve for the class is good for the game. Currently most of the classes/specs only need the correct macro copy-pasted and youre good to go.

    If you cant manage complex rotations add things one at a time or skip things that are not essential. If putting more effort into ones play is rewarding its good for the game as well.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asteldian View Post
    And you feel this is a positive? I have already decided to bury the Reaver, I don't care if it's good damage, it is very, very boring. It's just playing a Bard but worse because my 'motifs' are 15s long instead of 30s. Most people hate playing a Bard, how making other classes have similar issues is suposed to enhance gameplay I don't quite see it.

    No one finds it ironic that Trion went through the effort of revamping the Bard to remove the terrible motif mechanic only to then apply it to all the other classes? Feels like Bard revenge.

    There is such a thing as adding complexity to make things more fun, and then adding complexity for the sake of it. Managing coldown timings, seperating skills from macros by choice (because the cooldowns are shorter than the duration etc.) all good stuff. Stretching out my hotbar with an army of buttons to press and simply keep cycling through, not what I call enhancing my gameplay.
    Which skills exactly resemble bard on live?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Seyrie View Post
    Is it bad to you or is it bad to the game?

    Manageable is a relative tern. 5 button rotation in a raid environment might be borring for some.

    Introducing a learning curve for the class is good for the game. Currently most of the classes/specs only need the correct macro copy-pasted and youre good to go.

    If you cant manage complex rotations add things one at a time.
    Bad for the game. It is a very small minority who believe cycling through endless buttons will enhance gameplay. For most it is a tedious experience. The fact I now have to press 12 buttons constantly instead of 4 constantly plus a load as and when a situation requires hasn't made it more challenging or more skillfull, it's just boring and inconvenient.

  12. #72
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    Get rid of the instants and make it so we can macro abilities.

    Mages made a big deal about the difficultly of their spec but created a third pary program to manage it (Kraaul alert). I dont have room on my keyobard for all these instant abilities.

    It is not fun. The point of the game is to have fun. It is not to satisfy a bunch of elitist who will macro stuff anyway by using expensive hardware or third party programs. Trion, don't throw 90% of your player base under the bus.

  13. #73
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    I have to agree with the above poster. I found doing the rotations were time consuming. Yes after a while you will get use to the rotation, but don't warriors have it hard enough already? Half the fights aren't melee friendly and we have to move in over 90 percent of the fights. I'm going to say that doing rotations with over 9 buttons and follow ups that only work after an initial attack and moving and paying attention to mechanics and listening to people on vent are just going to make the game frustrating.
    ----------------------------------------- Organization Drow ------------------------------------------
    | GP 4/4 | DH 4/4 | RotP 4/4 |GSB 5/5 | RoS 4/4 | HK 11/11 | ID 8/8 | PF 4/4 |
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Asteldian View Post
    Bad for the game. It is a very small minority who believe cycling through endless buttons will enhance gameplay. For most it is a tedious experience. The fact I now have to press 12 buttons constantly instead of 4 constantly plus a load as and when a situation requires hasn't made it more challenging or more skillfull, it's just boring and inconvenient.
    Depends on what they balance content around.

    If they balance it around faceroll macro users, then you have nothing to worry about; carry on. If they balance it around actually using all abilities to your full potential, then prepare for incoming QQ as the majority of the playerbase can't do that.

    Personally, I hope they keep it tough, but at a level where the folks that have the ability to use 8-12 buttons have an advantage, but folks that are stuck in the 3-6 button range are still able to perform, albeit not as well.
    Lemming@Greybriar

  15. #75
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    The change will throw 90% of the playerbase under the bus.

    Hope they realize exactly what impact this will have on anyone but the hardcore players.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Letholdus View Post
    Get rid of the instants and make it so we can macro abilities.

    Mages made a big deal about the difficultly of their spec but created a third pary program to manage it (Kraaul alert). I dont have room on my keyobard for all these instant abilities.

    It is not fun. The point of the game is to have fun. It is not to satisfy a bunch of elitist who will macro stuff anyway by using expensive hardware or third party programs. Trion, don't throw 90% of your player base under the bus.
    This is being done to shut up people are not even playing this game. Clearly trying to add complex rotations to warriors is an attempt to appease WoW fanbois who cry that Rift macros are too simple.

    If you guys have not played Harbinger yet, then go do it. If they gave me the option to pay to switch from Warrior to Mage I would. Tempest hits like a little girl compared to Paragon. We are completely pigeon holed into Paragon and SLI. If you do not realize this then I do not know what to tell you.

    If you are looking for a mix of range and melee now just drop the warriors and bring on the mage revolution. These changes pretty much guarantee that we are done outside of tanking and thanks to those changes I am not even sure anymore.

    You took the fun out of playing the class completely and now only people with Naga mouses will be able to efficiently play this class.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asteldian View Post
    Bad for the game. It is a very small minority who believe cycling through endless buttons will enhance gameplay. For most it is a tedious experience. The fact I now have to press 12 buttons constantly instead of 4 constantly plus a load as and when a situation requires hasn't made it more challenging or more skillfull, it's just boring and inconvenient.
    How exactly spaming a macro with 10 lines is not "a tedious experience" or challenging and skillful?

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Seyrie View Post
    How exactly spaming a macro with 10 lines is not "a tedious experience" or challenging and skillful?
    So to make yourself feel special you want to go more complicated then this?

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ations-v2.html

    This is the longest macro

    #show Bladefury
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Proper Timing
    cast Bladefury
    cast Titan's Strike
    cast Tearing Slash

    ^ Apparently that is just macro'n 10 things to one macro. Well guess what you can go ahead and have 10+ buttons to press and when you realize boss encounters in this game are built to have melee moving almost constantly maybe it will settle in how bad this screws us

    Here is a fact. A target dummy does not fight back. WHy you guys are so ready to get back on that roller coaster of constant up and down nerfs and changing FOTM builds every month is beyond me.

  19. #79
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    With the exception of maybe some odd BM spec with a bunch of reactive abilities as well as pet commands.. who has ever had 10 abilities in a warrior macro?

    I have 6 buttons in my 13/2 spec on live currently which I believe is pretty common for many raiders. The main argument for more macroability does not seem to be that people want to put everything in 2 macros and pull top dps. We want to be able to put 2 or 3 similar abilities into macros when you only need to be using one of them every 30 seconds, another every 15 and the last one in place of the other 2.

    If in the end at level 60 we end up with 5-7 buttons to press with 3 or 4 as macros it would seem like a good balance to me. People demanding more skill and more difficulty have always been able to simply put the skills on the bar and use them manually.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Redius View Post
    Depends on what they balance content around.

    If they balance it around faceroll macro users, then you have nothing to worry about; carry on. If they balance it around actually using all abilities to your full potential, then prepare for incoming QQ as the majority of the playerbase can't do that.

    Personally, I hope they keep it tough, but at a level where the folks that have the ability to use 8-12 buttons have an advantage, but folks that are stuck in the 3-6 button range are still able to perform, albeit not as well.
    That already happens. The current champ spec can be macro'd to disruptive strike and fierce strike, FB can be macro'd to earth burst, in paragon you can macro follow ups and relatives in one, but in both cases you pay a high price.

    It is not pressing the buttons which is skillful, it is timing - using a finisher 1s before SLI is off cooldown, using a reactive when you should have used a follow up, using disruptive strike when you already have 2 attack points, using the tearing slash finisher again too soon. All these little things have huge impact in fights which is why despite the current 'skillless' macro game there are significant differences in dps between two people of same lvl and gear.
    ----End of reply to poster quoted.

    Adding things for a so called tougher game does not always make it fun, if it did we would still have xp loss on death, naked corpse runs, slow mana regent so that resource management mattered, no lfg tool because being nice and helping people is key for making connections and being able to do harder content. All this stuff got binned since the days of EQ1 because it was deemed unpopular and tedious, yet people seem to want to expand our click list in the belief that this is fun and challenging?

    I'll compromise, give in to the whack a mole supporters but bring back naked corpse runs and remove the target details that tells you whether or not a mob is elite (remove detailed hp too) so people have to play smarter and better because the consequences are harsh. You learn to play better much faster when not doing so hurts.

    Having extra buttons to press is a lazy way of making the game more complex and simply satisfies the epeeners who truly believe they deserve to shine above the rest (which already happens anyway) and that it really matters that they can't show off their l33t skills of 15 button rotation juggling to the lesser gamers who already fail to compete but apparently not by enough

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