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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Defiler

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merxion View Post
    Druid amazing? I must seriously be doing it wrong. 2100sp doing 2600dps as a druid I'm not sure thats amazing. Am I missing something? Inq is less dps than that so uhm?
    If you're using supermeter then you might need to update it because a recent version of it added a bug where it was not counting the pet at all. If you're not, then yes. You're doing somehting wrong.

  2. #202
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    Defiler is still very weak in the 3rd beta as healer. I think he doesn't deserve the + symbol - mark him as support instead.

    It's really hard to heal with the current set of healing spells(only if you outgear the content it's possible - but as a bard I've an easier job to do it). As a supporter he is ok - I think the links will be very useful in raid situations and the 61pt talent is the best tank save button in game.

    Did anyone of the devs try to heal with a defiler and support (let's say a beastmaster - they can sign up for a support role as well) in lvl 60 starter gear one of current lvl 60 5-man instances ? And in lvl58-60 blue experts ?
    I don't question the usefulness of defilers in raids - I'm sure the links will give them a save raid spot - but a char that get's a + symbol should be able to act as a full healer.

  3. #203
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    How about letting Unholy Nexus spread Hideous Reconstruction (and maybe Foul Growth also) to 5 party/raid members when an ally is selected?

    Or let Bond of Torment or Siphon Vitality also heal linked allies.

  4. #204
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    A few things I would change Zibnik:

    Move Bonds to Root abilities. Make Bond of Pain level 10, Bond of Torment level 20, Bond of Corruption 36. Replace the now free tree abilities with:

    Ability A:
    Reduces the damage of Siphon Vitality by 10%. When Siphon Vitality expires on your target, the targets of your links gain Hideous Reconstruction. Toggled ability.

    Ability B:
    When you cast Loathsome Restoration or Ghastly Restoration with a target under the effect of your Foul Growth, it does not trigger a global cooldown.

    Ability C:
    Bond of Desecration.
    Applies Bond of Torment, Bond of Pain, and Bond of Corruption to your target. 30 second recast.

    With Rampant Growth, can you add in that the chance of your links adding Foul Growth is effected by the strongest active link. This is to help with AoE healing in PVE. Feedback is a bit unreliable for even healing 5 people.

  5. #205
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    Couple of things on that. Bond of Corruption is mostly a PvP ability. Trion, or zinbik at least, seems to with the mindset of keeping PvP abilities up in the tree to make them optional. I don't think that should change.


    Your Rampant Growth suggestion, how would you make the point investment work? I can't think of a way that wouldn't make it detrimental to the soul tree.


    And on the note of AoE healing, it seems to me that Defiler is mean to be a burst single target, so just like Purifier and Sentinel their AoE healing is limited.

  6. #206
    I like siphon vit healing your links, or maybe something like all death based heals you receive is spread to your links for 50% effectiveness.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golladan View Post
    And on the note of AoE healing, it seems to me that Defiler is mean to be a burst single target, so just like Purifier and Sentinel their AoE healing is limited.
    How should the burst work ?

    For example you're in the raid and a member goes down to 1% - you mean that you then begin to stack 3 foul growths and then you release them ?

    I can only burst on the tank when he has 3 foul growths - and maybe the 20% link target as well - the 10%/5% are unlikely to have stacked 3 foul growths. Somehow it's a bad mechanic overall - the defiler is there to prevent the need of burst healing, but all he can is some sort of 'too late' burst.

    Has someone healed one of the new lvl 54+ instances solo as a defiler and can give us some feedback how it works out ?

    Regards
    Agwen

  8. #208
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    You tell the raid member to follow mechanics and let your raid healers handle the raid healing. I'm sure there is a way to make a defiler/warden hybrid work to add some raid healing while still offering the links. You only need 36 points for the 20% link and I believe you no longer get an intercept damage reduction per point invested so having a lot of points in defiler might not be too beneficial. There isn't too big of a difference between the 20% and 25% links and while potentially powerful, you can probably live without the 61 point ability.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golladan View Post
    You tell the raid member to follow mechanics and let your raid healers handle the raid healing. I'm sure there is a way to make a defiler/warden hybrid work to add some raid healing while still offering the links. You only need 36 points for the 20% link and I believe you no longer get an intercept damage reduction per point invested so having a lot of points in defiler might not be too beneficial. There isn't too big of a difference between the 20% and 25% links and while potentially powerful, you can probably live without the 61 point ability.
    If that works out then you proof that the defiler isn't even useful in a raid setting. I agree that not all souls should be work well in all parts of the game - but they should be useful somewhere. But my original complain was that it's not really a heal soul (even if the devs ment it to be) - therefore removing the + symbol and giving them a support 'role' is better for the soul.

    Regards
    Mike

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agwen View Post
    How should the burst work ?

    For example you're in the raid and a member goes down to 1% - you mean that you then begin to stack 3 foul growths and then you release them ?

    I can only burst on the tank when he has 3 foul growths - and maybe the 20% link target as well - the 10%/5% are unlikely to have stacked 3 foul growths. Somehow it's a bad mechanic overall - the defiler is there to prevent the need of burst healing, but all he can is some sort of 'too late' burst.

    Has someone healed one of the new lvl 54+ instances solo as a defiler and can give us some feedback how it works out ?

    Regards
    Agwen
    Explosive Growth applies 3 stacks of Foul Growth and no longer has a cooldown. Instead, it has a mana cost of around 4x that of a single foul growth. After you cast Explosive Growth you cast Loathsome Restoration, which almost hits as hard as a single stack of Foul Growth and triggers all 3 stacks of Foul Growth that you just placed on your target 1 GCD ago. Continue alternating these while throwing in Empowered Affliction to restore your mana if it starts to get low. With only my paltry 1600 SP I'm able to heal for 4-5k non-crit every 2 GCDs on a single target, which is pretty bursty if you ask me

    Once you pick up Explosive Growth there's no reason you should be hard casting Foul Growth anymore.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agwen View Post
    If that works out then you proof that the defiler isn't even useful in a raid setting. I agree that not all souls should be work well in all parts of the game - but they should be useful somewhere. But my original complain was that it's not really a heal soul (even if the devs ment it to be) - therefore removing the + symbol and giving them a support 'role' is better for the soul.

    Regards
    Mike
    It's still useful. The links are pretty useful. Along with all the utility it brings. Understand defiler is not a raid healer. Just like you would not pick a purifier or a sentinel for raid heals, you would not pick a defiler. You have warden for that.

    And like I said, you can probably combine warden with defiler for a raid healer that brings links.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golladan View Post
    You tell the raid member to follow mechanics and let your raid healers handle the raid healing. I'm sure there is a way to make a defiler/warden hybrid work to add some raid healing while still offering the links. You only need 36 points for the 20% link and I believe you no longer get an intercept damage reduction per point invested so having a lot of points in defiler might not be too beneficial. There isn't too big of a difference between the 20% and 25% links and while potentially powerful, you can probably live without the 61 point ability.
    If that works out then you proof that the defiler isn't even useful in a raid setting. I agree that not all souls should be work well in all parts of the game - but they should be useful somewhere. But my original complain was that it's not really a heal soul (even if the devs ment it to be) - therefore removing the + symbol and giving them a support 'role' is better for the soul.

    Regards
    Mike

  13. #213
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    To continue on that train of thought, I agree with Golladan that Defiler really doesn't work as any kind of raid healer, and I think the problem everyone is having is that they are trying to shove it into that kind of role.

    Defiler has one AoE heal that hits a max of 5 targets for barely anything, and can passively apply stacks of foul growth to a max of 4 people. Compare that to the Warden, which has 7 different heals that can hit a max of 10 players, and 2 heals that can potentially hit an entire raid. On the other hand, the Defiler has great single target capabilities, described in my last post. I think once people stop trying to shove the square Defiler into the round raid healer role, they will start to realize just how much potential it has as a hybrid single target damager and healer. I certainly have and I'm loving it.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardPooch View Post
    Defiler has one AoE heal that hits a max of 5 targets for barely anything
    Actually it is a max of 10 targets, if you count the beacon, 9 if you dont.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardPooch View Post
    To continue on that train of thought, I agree with Golladan that Defiler really doesn't work as any kind of raid healer, and I think the problem everyone is having is that they are trying to shove it into that kind of role.
    I think the defiler has it place like it is now - all I would change is that if it's the main soul that we clerics get a supporter icon - I don't ask for more heal or more damage (ok maybe a bit more damage ).

    Only if defiler stays to be a healer it should be able doing that like the other healers.

    Regards
    Mike

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golladan View Post
    Couple of things on that. Bond of Corruption is mostly a PvP ability. Trion, or zinbik at least, seems to with the mindset of keeping PvP abilities up in the tree to make them optional. I don't think that should change.


    Your Rampant Growth suggestion, how would you make the point investment work? I can't think of a way that wouldn't make it detrimental to the soul tree.


    And on the note of AoE healing, it seems to me that Defiler is mean to be a burst single target, so just like Purifier and Sentinel their AoE healing is limited.
    Rampant Growth would work exactly how it works now, but instead of checking for each individual link to proc the Foul Growth, it would take the strongest one up and use that as a calculation.

    Right now:
    Link of Distress-10% chance to proc Foul Growth with damaging ability
    Link of Misery-20% chance
    Link of Suffering-40% chance
    Link of Agony 50% chance

    With my suggested change:
    (With Link of Suffering up)
    Link of Distress-40% chance
    Link of Misery-40% chance
    Link of Suffering-40% chance

    (With Link of Agony up)
    Link of Distress-50% chance
    Link of Misery-50% chance
    Link of Suffering-50% chance
    Link of Agony-50% chance.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noshei View Post
    Actually it is a max of 10 targets, if you count the beacon, 9 if you dont.
    Will Feedback hit 5 players PLUS all of your links? I was under the impression that it would only hit 5 players, and if any of them happened to be a link they would get 25% more healing.

    Either way though, You aren't going to keep up a raid by spamming Feedback, you aren't even going to keep up your links spamming Feedback unless they've got stacks of Foul Growth to be triggered, which even with Rampant Growth can't be applied in an AoE fashion reliably enough. It will probably wok in a five man where it'll probably be easier to keep 1 or two stacks rolling on your whole party (not including you) all the time via Rampant growth, but that doesn't translate over to Raid heals in any form or fashion.

    Defiler's Single target healing is excellent however with the EG/LR combo, so in a raid it'll probably be a pretty decent Tank Healer. It's aoe heals are probably enough to keep up a 5-man, but the same can be said for Sentinel and Purifier. By the way, both Sentinel and Purifier have more AoE heals than Defiler.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agwen View Post
    I think the defiler has it place like it is now - all I would change is that if it's the main soul that we clerics get a supporter icon - I don't ask for more heal or more damage (ok maybe a bit more damage ).

    Only if defiler stays to be a healer it should be able doing that like the other healers.

    Regards
    Mike
    So your saying that Defiler can't be labeled a healer unless it can do raid heals? Do you say the same thing about Sentinel and Purifier, who both have more AoE heals than the Defiler does? Sentinel and Purifier don't work as Raid Healers either

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyH01 View Post
    Rampant Growth would work exactly how it works now, but instead of checking for each individual link to proc the Foul Growth, it would take the strongest one up and use that as a calculation.

    Right now:
    Link of Distress-10% chance to proc Foul Growth with damaging ability
    Link of Misery-20% chance
    Link of Suffering-40% chance
    Link of Agony 50% chance

    With my suggested change:
    (With Link of Suffering up)
    Link of Distress-40% chance
    Link of Misery-40% chance
    Link of Suffering-40% chance

    (With Link of Agony up)
    Link of Distress-50% chance
    Link of Misery-50% chance
    Link of Suffering-50% chance
    Link of Agony-50% chance.
    The problem is you're not counting the link your beacon comes with, which intercepts 50% of the damage. So with your suggestion you would be forced to put a point on the beacon and you would have a 100% chance. Which I think is kind of OP.

    So you would need to modify Rampant Growth to only use half of the highest link for 1 point, or the full intercept of the highest link for 2 points(instead of double which is what it does now). But then this still forces you to get the beacon to keep the 50% chance, otherwise you would be stuck with 25%.

    While that might not be a problem for a 61 point Defiler, or even a 58 point defiler, it hurts hybridization as you're being forced to put a point in a trait that really doesn't offer anything outside of soloing.

    Another option would be to just make Rampant Growth ignore the beacon's link, but then you're hurting the defiler's ability to solo.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golladan View Post
    The problem is you're not counting the link your beacon comes with, which intercepts 50% of the damage. So with your suggestion you would be forced to put a point on the beacon and you would have a 100% chance. Which I think is kind of OP.

    So you would need to modify Rampant Growth to only use half of the highest link for 1 point, or the full intercept of the highest link for 2 points(instead of double which is what it does now). But then this still forces you to get the beacon to keep the 50% chance, otherwise you would be stuck with 25%.

    While that might not be a problem for a 61 point Defiler, or even a 58 point defiler, it hurts hybridization as you're being forced to put a point in a trait that really doesn't offer anything outside of soloing.

    Another option would be to just make Rampant Growth ignore the beacon's link, but then you're hurting the defiler's ability to solo.
    If you've gone far enough into Defiler to pick up Pain Transmission, then I would recommend keeping your Beacon out even when you are in a group. Pain Transmission effectively does an extra 100% damage for each linked party member + you near an enemy (So you should be using it in your single target rotation). In a raid if you have all Melee people linked, plus your Beacon out, plus you are in Melee range (I'm actually experimenting with a Melee Defiler right now that works a lot like BnJ) Pain Transmission will do 500% extra damage on a single target.

    For a while I was only using Pain Transmission for AoE; then I realized just how strong it could be single target and I've been using it on cooldown ever since.

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