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Thread: Focused Chloromancer Testing and Questions

  1. #1

    Focused Chloromancer Testing and Questions

    A lot of focus seems to be put on DPS, but tomorrow, I wanted to take a hard look at the Chloromancer soul and use this thread for feedback on it. I wanted to list the areas that I'll be testing as well as ask some questions that would better direct what I should be looking for. I fully expect that some of my questions will be answered tomorrow or by those who play in Alpha, but I want to be thorough.

    Areas to give feedback on:

    -Capabilities as a competent healer
    -Degree of hybridization that's possible while remaining effective
    -Flexibility as a healer
    -How the new tools fit with the theme of the soul
    -Overall 'fun' (subjective as that might be)


    Questions to better target feedback:

    1) Is the idea behind Chloromancer hybrids still that 'pure' specs will output better tank healing while hybrid specs will output better raid healing and higher DPS?

    2) Will mages and clerics continue to be interchangeable? The damage-dealing and healing capabilities of Wardens seem vastly improved, so my fear is that Chloromancer's may seem redundant.

    3) Given that damage and healing values are now separate, will Life-spells deal more damage in general as they would no longer need to be balanced against the heals that they produce?

    4) Will there be any additional life spells to spice up how Chloromancers heal outside of Harbinger? The new spells seem only to address areas where Chloromancers were weaker (cleansing, spot healing, defensive cooldowns) but none read like they contribute much to a damage-produces-healing playstyle.

    5) Because of the adjusted passive Living Infusion and the separation from healing based off damage dealt, will there be much reason to hybridize and take fewer points in Chloromancer? Each soul seems to have its own involved playstyle that may not lend itself to healing.


    Feedback and Concerns:

    1) *feedback* Essence Conversion bothers me. It sounds just like Sacrifice Life: Mana. I would rather have a more interesting way of regenerating mana, even if it required a drawback.

    2) *to be answered tomorrow* Will any Chloromancer spells, other than Flourish and Radiant Spores, be capable of affecting more than 5 people at once? Wardens have four powerful utilities that will be able to heal 10 people at the same time, including "Monsoon - Applies Healing Flood, Healing Spray, and 4 stacks of Soothing Stream to up to 10 party or raid members. 60s CD." That's an enormous amount of healing.
    *Answered 10/4/12* Lifegiving Veil will heal 10 players.

    More feedback and questions to come when I finally get to experience the Beta


    Chloromancer Changes for easy reference. Updated 10/4/12
    CHLOROMANCER
    The Chloromancer is still a soul that heals through dealing damage. Previously this healing was done as a percentage of the damage dealt. With this update, the healing is done based on the base cast time of the spell dealing damage. If an effect reduces the cast time of an ability it will still trigger healing based on the original cast time of the ability and not the modified cast time. The Chloromancer will still need to deal damage in order to trigger the healing from their Veils, but that healing will not be based on the amount of damage done. Life damage will still heal for more damage and AoE spells continue to be less efficient in the healing they provide.

    Chloromancer Gift: Living Infusion: Increases your healing by 1% for each point spent in the Chloromancer soul.

    Major Ability Changes:
    * Withering Vine: The healing from this now reaches a 15 meter area around the affected enemy.
    * Entropic Veil: This now increases both damage and healing.
    * Radiant Spores: Healing from Radiant Spores is now capped at 5% of the Mage’s maximum health per proc.
    * Nature’s Swiftness: This now reduces the cast time of Nature’s Fury and Natural Healing.
    * Living Shell: No longer removes mana when you are damaged while Living Shell is active.
    * Lifegiving Veil: Now heals up to 10 allies.

    New Root Abilities:
    * Cleansing Rush: Removes 1 Curse, Disease, or Poison from up to 10 group and raid members within 15 meters.
    * Healing Torrent: Targeted heal that applies an additional heal over time effect.
    * Essence Conversion: Restores 7% mana. Consumes 7% health.
    * Restorative Shield: Restores health the next 10 times the ally is dealt damage. Lasts up to 5 minutes.
    * Resurgence: Restores health over 6 seconds.
    * Living Aegis: Increases the Mage's Maximum Health by 10%, their Life damage by 15%, healing by 10% and heals the Mage when they are damaged.

    Removed Root Abilities:
    * Stream of Reclamation
    * Track Life Creatures
    * Wild Abandon
    * Corrosion
    * Empathic Bond
    * Seed of Life

    New Soul Tree Abilities:
    * Natural Power: Lifegiving Veil and Lifebound Veil increase your Life damage by 3/6/10%.
    * Lingering Spores: Increases the duration of your Radiant Spores by 5/10 seconds.
    * Vengeful Healer: Casting a non-damaging healing spell places a stack of Vengeful Healer on you for 30 seconds. While affected by Vengeful Healer, the damage of your next Life based damaging ability is increased by 10/20%. Casting a Life based damaging ability removes 1 stack of Vengeful Healer. Max 5 stacks.
    * Convalesce: Nature’s Cleansing and Cleansing Rush have a 33/66/100% chance to heal the cleansed ally for 3% of their maximum health.
    * Boon of Life: Damage from Vile Spores, Ruin and Void Life place a stacking buff on you, reducing the cast time of your next Nature's Touch cast within 10 seconds by 0.3/0.4/0.5 seconds. Does not include damage from Nature's Corrosion.

    Removed Soul Tree Abilities:
    * Unleashed Abandon
    * Enduring Tether

  2. #2
    Member Atropis's Avatar
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    set crystal 4pc is now "increases all healing done to the mage's synthesis target by 100".

    Still get insta NT from talents. The buff procs from VS Ruin and VL now. Pretty nice changes.
    Atropis <Black Snow> Faeblight
    11/11 4/4 5/8

  3. #3
    Top on my priority list is figuring out how the change from damage based heals to cast time based heals will affect hybridization. Up till now, throwing 30 pts in pyro or lock for the additional dmg multipliers meant that your chloro dmg abilities healed for more. If it's all going to be based on SP and cast time now then adding dmg multiplying talents to your build will not affect how much vile spores heals for. I expect chloros will now be searching for +SP talents or cast time reduction talents (if there are any) and that anything other than a deep chloro build will be forced to sacrifice heals for more damage. I'll be messing around with everything from deep chloro to chlorobinger and other halfsies hybrids to determine if anything other than a deep chloro will still be a viable raid healing option.

  4. #4
    Member Atropis's Avatar
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    Chloro-harb hybridization looks good. 10% SP talent at bottom of Harb tree, some nice life dmg attacks.

    One thing I noticed, the Harb charge consumer only consumes charge when a harb attack is used and non-harb spells can still gen charge when the buff is up. You can talent it to increase ALL dmg (not just harb attacks) by 10%. Granted, you need 17pts to get this, but at 60 we could fill one tree and have enough points to essentially get a 10% buff to dmg. ALong the way we could picl up 8% move speed buff and 10% SP buffs.
    Atropis <Black Snow> Faeblight
    11/11 4/4 5/8

  5. #5
    I currently run 36/30 chlorolock and chloropyro, I'm hoping that chlorobinger hybrid will be able to replace both of these as chloropyro is mainly for cleansing and we now have an AE cleanse.

    I'm also looking forward to testing chlorodom for pvp and various full chloro builds for mt healing. I genuinely hope that hybrid chloro out raid heals full chloro or is comparable with more dps.

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    Re chloro-harb hybrid
    I do not know if it's intended, but using Piercing Beam and Vorpal Slash does not remove the stacks of Vengeful Healer, although this buff seems to affect the damage of these abilities as it should.
    With Blazing Light everything seems to work as expected - the stack is removed upon each application of the dot.

  7. #7
    So, I've had the opportunity to run a few dungeons with Chloromancer as a pure healer, and so I've developed some early feedback. The tooltips really need to give more information, but they seem to automatically (and accurately) reflect the amount of damage that you will deal as well as the amount that direct healing spells will heal for.

    This numbers are unbuffed and will be higher in a raid environment.

    Lifebound Veil
    -Healing though Lifebound Veil hasn't changed to a noticeable extent. I'm actually rather disappointed in that.
    -The changes have really hurt LBV's ability to heal. When the game means single-target, it really means single target. The splash healing is less than 200 with over 2100 spellpower.
    -Other than Void Life and Nature's Touch, Synthesis seems to boost healing on the target by between 4-6x what your character receives.
    -A hit from Nature's Touch can heal my character for 189 and hit my Synthesis target for 2775, somewhere around 14-15x the typical amount . I would guess that the bonus heal is merged, not separate like live, and in the range of an additional 900%.
    -Void Life heals the Synthesis target for around 26x the amount it heals everyone. I was getting ticks for 79 with the target receiving 2125 healing.

    Lifegiving Veil
    -I haven't been in a raid yet, but an increase to 10 targets seems absolutely amazing. I can output a lot of healing through this veil.
    -The amount of healing with each spell seems about right, though Nature's Fury feels a bit low.

    Direct Heals
    -Flourish feels very outdated now that Lifegiving Veil is back to healing 10 players. It heals the exact same as Nature's Touch, but even though the latter has travel-time, it also has a longer healing range and shorter cooldown. Perhaps it could be merged with Healing Torrent and have a short duration hot after its use.
    -The talent to reduce Natural Healing's cast time is welcome, but it can match Nature's Touch's healing on a tank, and I believe it may outpace Void Life in tank healing. Given that LBV only heals raid members for a trivial amount, there's not much loss to just spamming Natural Healing.
    -Healing Torrent. What is the purpose of this spell? It just doesn't feel like it fits the Chloromancer theme at all. Its HPCT (healing per cast time) is slightly higher than Natural Healing, even when the latter is talented for the reduced cast time (but perhaps not with the increased crit chance), but it just sticks out. It has a fairly long cooldown, a standard cast-time, and has no interaction with any talents. It's just a spell.
    -Restorative Shield and Resurgence are both above my level, so I can only give feedback about the idea. I like Restorative Shield, but I don't like that Resurgence has a cooldown. There aren't even any talents that interact with it. Same complaint as Healing Torrent, really... it doesn't really fit. They feel like Warden spells.

    Talents

    -With the change in how the Veils work, more than one point in Nature's Corrosion is a total waste in terms of healing. You will heal for the same amount with 1 point as you will with 3 points.
    -Vengeful Healer would work will with the old Veil system, but increasing the damage of your life spells by 20% doesn't accomplish too much when the amount that they heal doesn't change. The spells that benefit the most from this talent are also the spells that do the least amount of healing (Nature's Fury).

    Synergy
    -Other souls can synergize well with Chloromancer, but there are very few options for Chloromancers to improve their healing past 15 points. Even with Harbinger, that's almost entirely focused on the melee playstyle and not the Chloromancer's ranged.


    Questions
    1) Are Chloromancers supposed to simply reach a certain amount of healing and then just focus on their DPS? With the new veil system, it doesn't matter what order you cast your spells; you'll get the same amount of healing out of them, either way.

    2) Why aren't there more ranged life spells for Chloromancers to take advantage of? Blazing Light is inferior to Withering Vines for healing and only heals for the first tick. If Withering Vines didn't heal and Ruin were untalented, the three spells would heal for exactly the same amount.


    General Feedback
    I really don't like how healing hasn't really changed. There aren't any sort of interesting procs to take advantage of. Chloromancers are healers that do DPS. I wouldn't mind having to focus more on DPSing if that focus actually rewarded me by making me a better healer. Other than the talent that allows Nature's Touch to be an instant cast, our spells don't work together. Casting Vile Spores does nothing to my Void Life. Withering Vines doesn't do anything for Natural Splendor. I have a bunch of tools, but they feel like they all came from different toolboxes.

    Give me a proc that increases the healing or speeds up the channel of my Void Life. Maybe let Vile Spores do more healing if Withering Vines is on the target. Let Radiant Death spread Withering Vines for some fun AoE healing. Give me a spell that plants a seed on a target, and when an ally hits it, it puts a HoT or shield on them. The new spells that we received just seem basic, but what really frustrates me is that it doesn't really fit our style. The last thing that I want to learn is that our tank healing is focused around using our direct heals and not our damaging life spells.

  8. #8
    In terms of healing output, I don't think anything will be able to do more than:
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...FkGGiBiAGl4/S8

    However, given the changes in crit rating and crit power, I think a spec like this might become useful, depending on how we weigh our stats:
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...kGGiBiAGl4/h8i

    Now, I've learned something very troubling. Reaper's Blade, the 41 point talent in Harbinger, does not proc either of the Chloromancer's veils. This would have been an outstanding source of healing and would have opened up unique melee healing opportunities. But there's no synergy at all. You could spend an additional point in Harbinger to get Blazing Light, but all you would get out of that is another instant cast healing proc. You would get the same amount of healing out of casting Withering Vines again.

    Has anyone happened upon any PvE hybrid builds that offer competitive healing capabilities?

  9. #9
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    Lifebound veil's group healing has been crippled. I'm satisfied or pleased with just about everything else but this one is a deal breaker, I'm happy to post it anywhere it's relevent but we need LBV to be buffed so we can retain 5 man viability. Being balanced around raids but gimped elsewhere WILL hurt the class in raids as we are unable to learn our craft in 5 mans or gear up as a healer and it will hurt the number of people will to take a chloro in a raid to show what it can do. I was getting about 90 a tick when nuking a target dummy with void life, this is about a 60% loss in group HPS before account for radiant spores being nerfed. Absolutely destroyed our ability to heal 5 mans, and given the aggressive aoe going off in storm queen's escape this is doubly felt. Trash and bosses doing some evil aoe and we can heal group members for 90 per tick and 200 from radiant spores from time to time.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by devicus View Post
    Lifebound veil's group healing has been crippled. I'm satisfied or pleased with just about everything else but this one is a deal breaker, I'm happy to post it anywhere it's relevent but we need LBV to be buffed so we can retain 5 man viability. Being balanced around raids but gimped elsewhere WILL hurt the class in raids as we are unable to learn our craft in 5 mans or gear up as a healer and it will hurt the number of people will to take a chloro in a raid to show what it can do. I was getting about 90 a tick when nuking a target dummy with void life, this is about a 60% loss in group HPS before account for radiant spores being nerfed. Absolutely destroyed our ability to heal 5 mans, and given the aggressive aoe going off in storm queen's escape this is doubly felt. Trash and bosses doing some evil aoe and we can heal group members for 90 per tick and 200 from radiant spores from time to time.
    No, our ability to heal 5 mans is still intact. Remember, we can change our Veils at will. I spent most of Crucia's dungeon in Lifegiving Veil as the tank damage was light and sporadic at the times where it was heavy.

    However, that's not to say that I like the new Lifebound Veil. If this is the direction that Chloromancers are taking, I would rather see Lifebound Veil become self-healing only with no party support. Give it a form of damage mitigation/reduction so that Lifebound Veil can be used while soloing or in PvP. Synthesis would function as normal.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Armine View Post
    No, our ability to heal 5 mans is still intact. Remember, we can change our Veils at will. I spent most of Crucia's dungeon in Lifegiving Veil as the tank damage was light and sporadic at the times where it was heavy.

    However, that's not to say that I like the new Lifebound Veil. If this is the direction that Chloromancers are taking, I would rather see Lifebound Veil become self-healing only with no party support. Give it a form of damage mitigation/reduction so that Lifebound Veil can be used while soloing or in PvP. Synthesis would function as normal.
    We can change veils, but the healing we're doing with lifegiving veil seems much smaller than it is on live. Might be a bad use of spells though, I didn't really get to play with it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armine View Post
    No, our ability to heal 5 mans is still intact. Remember, we can change our Veils at will. I spent most of Crucia's dungeon in Lifegiving Veil as the tank damage was light and sporadic at the times where it was heavy.
    True though I'm wondering if the tank damage will hold up. I was able to LGV one or two fights but I was healing a tank with enough gear to tank anything in ID, ie about 2 tiers over the gear level the dungeon is aimed at and me also similarly geared. I guess we'll see how the next dungeon goes, if the tank damage is noticeably higher in 2 or 3 levels this will not hold and it won't even work for people not massively over geared. I've seen bards heal experts but that's just because they and the tank are overgeared.

    This could be a death knell for tank healing chloros in raids (as well as dungeons) though as even with the new utility we won't be able to match a sentinel and our old niche was that we cross healed, and group healed while doing it, but that's been knackered.

    I still don't get why LBV needed nerfing like that. Spores entirely but LBV? No.
    edit: This is familiar. They tried to murder chloro tank healing in 1.3 if I remember right. They shaved 40% of our tank HPS off and tried to hide it with a slight LGV buff. And then had to overhaul because their changes were terrible (chloro tank healers were suddenly unable to keep up anything but overgeared tanks on the PTS) and now they're trying to do it again. Surely they must have learnt last time?

  13. #13
    Healing Torrent need be insta or 0.5-1s cast max. otherwise spell is no to use..
    I did some DH runs (MT heal build), seems raid heal was rather weak, new Lifegiving Veil & Void life is a weak combination. My Void life crit enemy to 1050 and Lifegiving Veil heal raid for 675..that is a big nerf...yea nice casting time base healing..REALLY??

    Trion change Lifegiving Veil to make Chloro viable PVP healer..LOL at same time they nerf healing in PVP..omg double FAIL.

    I'm happy if Chloro is good MT healer, NOT happy if Chloro is only for MT healing.
    PVP healing, I give up.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=Armine;60150]In terms of healing output, I don't think anything will be able to do more than:
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...FkGGiBiAGl4/S8

    However, given the changes in crit rating and crit power, I think a spec like this might become useful, depending on how we weigh our stats:
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...kGGiBiAGl4/h8i


    I found a different build that worked good for my playstyle: Chlorochon
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...FkGGiBiAGl4/S8

    level 51 atm, using archon crystal for the extra spell power buff from shared vigor and pillaging stone. But i agree i got a wand with 23 crit power which = 2% more crit damage. Elemental seems to be the way to go later when crit power is around 100 to 200 rating

  15. #15
    Myself I am not a fan of the way chloromancer works now with the separation of damage dealt converted into healing done. The heals overall seem much weaker, radiant spores is hardly worth the cast.

    When I went into the new dungeon I was running a 51chloro 15dom and lifebound veil was unusable as a healer for the AOE the group would take. Switching to LGV allowed for better heals but at the end boss the only viable healing method was a void life spam combined with entropic veil and a finish of flourish before the 3rd tick to keep the entire group alive.

    I have not had a chance to test out the effectiveness of the increased 10 man healing of LGV but I do know for 5 mans it pigeonholes us into a spam to survive high damage, spam void life, bloom on the tank, spam void life, bloom on the tank.. During lower damage phases yes you can augment this with spores and vines and ruin but it is taking away one of the most fun aspects of the chloromancer class which was hybridization.

    This is only 2 levels of experience in one new dungeon but I am not sure how much better or different this soul will be come 60.

    PS. GIVE ME MY CORROSION BACK!!!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by utterchaos View Post
    I found a different build that worked good for my playstyle: Chlorochon
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...FkGGiBiAGl4/S8

    level 51 atm, using archon crystal for the extra spell power buff from shared vigor and pillaging stone. But i agree i got a wand with 23 crit power which = 2% more crit damage. Elemental seems to be the way to go later when crit power is around 100 to 200 rating
    I'm not certain if Strength of Stone is really worth it. By my estimation, at level 50, that would give you around 73 Int. Dominator gives me over 86 Int with 10 points, and I have nowhere near BIS gear. The benefit would be better mana regeneration, but I could sacrifice 4% spellpower and get that if it really became necessary.

    To be honest, I don't have a problem with a talent setup that forces you to make choices between max healing/DPS and very useful utility. That's what talent trees are supposed to do. I will have a problem if other souls aren't set up in a similar fashion.

  17. #17
    As it stands I think 10 domi 5 harb will be one of the better healing specs at 50 and maybe 60, since they are the only 2 trees that directly buff our sp/healing talents, by a decent scaleable amount.

  18. #18
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    I loathe the notion that ALL viable healing builds will now be 61/x builds. This new change to healing based on cast time rather than damage done is some perverse way of attempting to help PVP chloro and in the process it's ruining the class for pve. You're fundamentally changing the one and only heal soul that mages have in a huge fashion, and to be blunt - this is a dealbreaker. I won't spend the next year spamming the same pathetic 1-button void life spam spec that has been the bane of chloro tank healing.

    And to pre-empt those who would point to chlorobinger as a possible hybrid; it is no where close to viable as a healing build in its current form.

    The current state of mage healing: disastrous.

    P.S.: Give corrosion back.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Crovack View Post
    And to spout more nonsense at those who would point to chlorobinger as a possible hybrid: I haven't found a viable way to do it and/or suck at being in melee, nor do I know how to use semicolons properly.
    Fixed that for you.

    Have been running 36/32 Chloro/Harb in both the new dungeon and experts and solo healing no problem. Last fight of new dungeon is much easier as ranged but that's a dodging stuff problem, not a healing issue.

  20. #20
    LGV not proccing from harbinger abilities was introduced last patch when kervik broke something (we think, since he hasn't said anything) if that change is fixed then chloro/harbinger hybrids become more viable with the life axe and the life-based slashes.

    as it stands now chloro just doesn't feel right.

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