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Thread: Necromancer Feedback

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    Necromancer Feedback

    Now that the Necromancer has been revealed and is available on Alpha, I wanted to start a thread to focus on feedback for the Necromancer.

    One of the main ideas with this class is the majority of its DPS will come from the pet, but the Necromancer will serve as an enabler for the pet's damage. They also have the ability to transfer life from themselves to an ally and some abilities to help facilitate healing in this manner.

    Any feedback on the class is welcome. I know I'm going to be playing the heck out of the class now that its available on Alpha and am interested in everyone else's thoughts.

    A known issue or two:
    The Feign Death ability still has some issues we're working on. You do not actually appear dead when using it, but it will still remove aggro from NPCs that are attacking you. We're working on making this work and appear more like you expect.
    Lich Form is currently using the Umbral Shade renderable. This is most likely not the final renderable for it, but the better candidates aren't ready for use at this time.

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    I'm so happy right now.

    Expect tons of feedback!

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    Summoning the Skeletal Zealot while in Lich Form "Killed" me...my portrait says Eonann (Dead) however I can still cast spells, and attack mobs. Mobs can also attack me but are unable to kill me since I am apparently already dead. Now I know Necro's are the masters of the dead but I can see this causing balance issues...I'm just sayin.
    Eonan - 50 Beastmaster/Champion and Paladin

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    Initial impressions, playing a 38 necro/13 warlock at level 50. Ran several rifts in Shimmersand level 44-48. Feedback is based on the hour or so of playtime I had tonight, so it's not exhaustive by any means.

    Overall Characteristics:

    - Incredibly tough for a mage. Soul Purge is a nice bit of healing for a charge ability, not overpowering by itself, just nice. Essence LInk is ridiculously good, maybe too good IMO. Even with this patch's healing nerf, Essence Link is healing me for 242 non-crit, 360ish on a crit every time my pet hits a target (did not spec into the increased healing from EL). My zealot hits every couple of seconds. That is in Droughtlands arena armor. In level 50 epic gear, I can see this being completely overpowered. I recommend putting Essence Link on a timer of 2-3 minutes OR tuning it down if you want it to be a constant thing. One caveat is I can see it's utility in a group setting because it let's the necro spam heals without killing themselves. Without that essence link it becomes a lot harder for the lock to heal. It's a conundrum.

    - Solid healing, maybe even good enough to mainheal a regular instance. I was able to heal my pet for 850ish non-crit, 1200ish on a crit. The HoT seems less useful, was hitting about 70 a tic I think, but it's a nice supplement to the instant heal.

    - Midrange damage. I wasn't putting out the kaboom my Pyromancer does, but that could easily be because I was so new to the class. It's hard to learn a class at 50 with so many new buttons, but I think I had a decent rotation by the end of two dots (1 lock, 1 necro), Looming Demise for all the pet synergy, and spam Plague Bolt with Essence Link as necessary/desired.

    - Next to no downtime at all. I drank a LOT less with the necro than I have with any other class.

    - Lots of crowd control options. In addition to getting Fear from the warlock tree, I also had Feign Death and Death's Grasp. This is in addition to Trans from 0-point Dominator.

    - GREAT pet choices. I was initially hesitant to try out the necro because I tend to avoid pet classes. The pets the Necro gets are genuinely useful, or at least the Knight and Zealot are. I didn't spend any time with the mage one because I fell in love with the Zealot. I also stopped using the Knight because the necro is so tough it doesn't get the same mileage out of a tank that the other mage classes seem to.

    I'll come up with more detailed feedback as I explore the class more, as I fully intend to. Initial impressions are that this is an amazing addition. I really worry that it is overpowered, but it would be great to see the other souls brought up to the necro's level instead of nerfing it, because it's a blast as is.

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    Figured it out...its not actually the summoning that was doing it. Lich form drains life...but wont actually kill you and produces said bug.
    Eonan - 50 Beastmaster/Champion and Paladin

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    Doh I forgot about that bug with Lich form. I'll look into it since 0 health should just result in you being dead on the ground.

    Thanks for the feedback so far. Keep it coming!

  7. #7
    Necromancer Feedback:

    *Please note: I'm not a fan of pet classes*

    The above being said, its the most enjoyable pet experience out so far. They are definitely cool, though I feel the necromancer is reduced to a healbot for his own pet. Not exactly my style of playing, but I can see others enjoying it. I couldn't think of anything the necromancer brought to the table that I couldn't get really in other souls, outside of a fantastic pet choice.

    I really would've preferred an Arbiter who summoned strategically placed turrets on the field that performed various affects to the mage/party. It would've added more to my soul selection at any rate. Perhaps replace the lackluster Archon with Arbiter now?

    Negativity aside, its a solid soul, well thought out and put together, I can see an Elementalist reach 30 and switch whole heartedly into necromancer. It is also viable to a party, with his heals, going to party members instead of his pet at some point, but I feel a Chloromancer is a better fit for party healing/damage.

    I'll continue trying the Necromancer out and see if my feelings change with time.

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    It seems very much like a soul you shouldnt touch before level 25 given that the pets have bonus elements to their attacks that are dependent on you having cast the 24-point root ability on them plus various other synergies driven by branch selected abilities.

    Its a very interesting mechanic because everything is done through the pet and all of your abilities are meant to provide bonuses etc. for the pet.

    Blood Binding and Life Shift should auto-target your pet if you dont have a target selected. These spells cant be cast on yourself and are primarily intended for your own pet, so that would be a very helpful change.

    The tap-health-of-pet for power spell seems to do too little with each casting. Perhaps this is intentional to prevent it from competing with drinking out of combat.

    The "AE taunt" of the Skeletal Knight on targets who have at least one counter of plague doesnt seem to be working. I sent the Knight into a group of mobs and then cast the AE spell that basically just applies plague counters to everyone thinking that this would allow him to hold aggro...but no such luck. Perhaps the range on this is too small?

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    Alright, couple things here!

    On Abilities


    Mass Grave is awesome, and I love it to undeath! Empty The Crypts is also good, (albeit not AS good) and they give a nice feel to the Necro.

    Of course the feign death bug.

    Corpse Explosion - Although I always love the idea of Corpse Explosion, I've never yet seen a game get it right. The corpses fade out too fast and its just hard to get something near a corpse for a meager amount of damage. Perhaps changing it into a dormant spell that triggers an aoe when the target dies? It would be much more useful then, I think.

    Soul Purge - Currently seems a little underwhelming. The heal isn't that strong and I'm not seeing much damage from it. It has potential to be the in combat charge dump (when the swarm spell is down), but right now its really slow and not that effective.

    Reclaim Power - Seems a little underwhelming. I have to balance healing my pet and Reclaim Power to get a small return out of it, really.

    Consumption - Currently is castable and gives mana even if no buffs were eaten. I don't know if this was intended or not, just pointing it out.

    Blood Binding - Seems a bit bad as well. It doesn't give hardly any health to the target and in most cases a life shift is a better investment.


    On Pets

    The pets currently are 10x better than the Elementalist pets. Thank you. You might however want to go back and retweak ele pets a little now that you've made this great system, but just a tad because Necros don't have nukes and etc like Elementalists.

    Shadow Revenant - This seems like the premier grouping pet. It has some nice AoE potential, and that might make it more useful than the Zealot in some cases. Currently, the Shadow Revenant is not proccing Death's Grasp.

    Skeletal Knight - Currently I have no use for this pet. It may be because of the 1 armor bug, but currently he goes down just as fast as the Zealot and does much much less damage. The Zealot can tank just because of the dps he puts out. I think if something happened to make him feel lifetappy (which would make healing him easier as fighting with him takes a lot longer), then he would be used much more.

    Skeletal Zealot - By far the most useful pet of all 3. He puts out fast damage that keeps you healed constantly with Essence Link, and Blood Spike is critting mobs for around 800 damage every 5 seconds. This probably needs a tad tweaking, perhaps by requiring the Zealot to be behind the target for Blood Spike.

    When I summon a pet, it is never at full health. I believe this is because of it scaling with gear, but its just a tad annoying to have to get its hp back right after summoning it.

    Suggestions

    Replace Corpse Explosion with an ability that teleports your Zealot behind the target and increases the damage of its next Blood Spike, makes the Knight heal himself from Essence Link heals for 10 seconds, or turning the Revenant's next Blood Corruption into a group wide lifetap (depending on which pet is out, of course).

    Overall, I love the Necro's ideas and feel. When I first read of the pet synergy, I thought about the DaOc necro and was excited. However this Necro's pet synergy is a LOT slower than DaOc's. If I had to add anything, it would be for the Necro to have a faster fighting style. I don't know how to accomplish this really though without changing a lot.

    My suggestion would be to turn the Necro pet into something other than the traditional pet mechanics you have now. You can't auto cast pet spells, but instead its abilities are tied in with your Necrosis, Looming Demise, Plague Bolt, etc. When you use Looming Demise, it will trigger your pet to cast a Blood Spike (and so on). The goal is for a faster combat style and more of a pet controlling feel for the Necro. Of course the auto attack damage would have to be increased (or for the Revenant, spell damage would have to be much higher), but its just an idea.

  10. #10
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    Level 50 Mage (35 Necro, 16 Chloro, 0 Archon)
    Necromancer: "The best way to duo without the XP hit and keep all the profits"

    Seriously, you are now 2 v 1 on anything.

    A second issue with Feign death, and maybe it would be resolved with your other fix is that it didn't stop my pet from attacking still. I cast feign death, and he just kept on going. Also the buff icon for feign death when it is on you, lists the information for Lich Form.

    Lich Form: Overall this is good, but it should really be an instant cast spell. You can't mount when it is on, so you have to take it off, ride, cast for 4 seconds, take it off.... Keep the mana cost, but make it an instant cast spell and I think it would work better. I don't see any negatives to making it instant cast.

    While having 3 different pets seems nice, you really have to choose which one you want to use. You either have to drop 3 points in melee or 3 points in caster. You sacrifice synergy with another soul and those 3 points are worth a lot somewhere else.

    From a soloing standpoint, it wasn't worth it to go higher in the tree. The synergy from Chloromancer provides more benefit.

    It took a little learning to just understand the synergy as well since the first questions were "What is Deathly calling?" "Why do the starter pets benefit from Looming Demise, yet it is 24 points into the tree?" This is obviously not a starter soul since you as the player do not get any abilities without 2 points spent into the tree. Are you supposed to melee with your pet until you have 2 soul points? If this is a soul you gain at level 30, it would resolve this issue.

    Reclaim Power seems a little weak in that it takes 10% of your life from the pet but only gives you 5% mana back. I could see this not being changed too much so that it doesn't step on the warlock's shoes. I haven't played with Consumption, but maybe that is supposed to cover the gap.

    Exhume: Not sure why this is needed. Is this to change pets in the middle of a fight? The only time my pet died was when I died. Otherwise it wasn't hard to keep him alive and still fully dps. I could see "letting" the pet die for the hopeful explosion and stun from Detonate Bones, but it doesn't really do enough damage to be worthwhile so I didn't even bother investing points in it.

    I didn't bother using the heals from the necro at all as they seemed pretty underpowered. I did use Soul Purge on some mobs, the but damage/heal is just too small to justify the use of my charge on it. I would rather just end the fight, tap mana back and then use Knit Flesh.

    With the synergy from the Chloromancer tree (Bloom, Flourish, Synthesis/Nature's Touch, Radiant Spores), the pet can't die and neither can I.

    There was actually a comical situation last night. I was running around in Stillmore and decided to go after a level 49 Life invasion consisting of a Dragonwhelp Alpha and his 3 buddies. So I start in on the Alpha since if you kill him you stop the invasion, but he wasn't seemingly dying. he would heal himself back up or would get healed by his pets. My pet would also not die due to the radiant spores/ Lifegiving Veil, and the other chloro benifits. The fight theoretically could have gone on forever without either side losing. I had to burn his pets, and then burn the Alpha himself to finally win out over his heal.

    Maybe Last Gasp would have helped, but the damage seems too low on it, and the point investment in the tree too high to be worth the cost.

    Overall it is fun to play, and probably could trivialize some content since you are 2v1. Theoretically I don't see anything stopping 5 mages from running an instance by themselves without any issues. At that point, it would be 10 players in the instance and not 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhue View Post
    Blood Binding and Life Shift should auto-target your pet if you dont have a target selected. These spells cant be cast on yourself and are primarily intended for your own pet, so that would be a very helpful change.
    Please, oh please, yes! I just did like 4-5 fights to get a very first feel of the class, and this is annoying me already! (or have an enemy+friendly targets system, but that requires much more change).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramagh View Post
    Please, oh please, yes! I just did like 4-5 fights to get a very first feel of the class, and this is annoying me already! (or have an enemy+friendly targets system, but that requires much more change).
    At the very least, please change hitting F1 to cycle between myself and the pet. I shouldn't have to click on him to target him.

    Also we need a "Show Pet Target" option now as well. I want to see who the pet is fighting. This is important if there are multiple mobs.

    One further also, it seems when you port, the pet gets re-summoned, which means he loses all buffs he had. Is there a way to stop this from happening?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhue View Post
    Blood Binding and Life Shift should auto-target your pet if you dont have a target selected. These spells cant be cast on yourself and are primarily intended for your own pet, so that would be a very helpful change.

    The tap-health-of-pet for power spell seems to do too little with each casting. Perhaps this is intentional to prevent it from competing with drinking out of combat.

    The "AE taunt" of the Skeletal Knight on targets who have at least one counter of plague doesnt seem to be working. I sent the Knight into a group of mobs and then cast the AE spell that basically just applies plague counters to everyone thinking that this would allow him to hold aggro...but no such luck. Perhaps the range on this is too small?
    For the auto-targeting your pet, try turning on smart targeting in the options menu. It helped a lot with this for me, but I may be missing some downsides to it since I only played with it for a short time.

    The mana returned by Reclaim Power is getting some adjustments. I agree that in its current form its about as annoying as it is helpful.

    I'll take a look at the AoE taunt on the Knight. It was working when I last tested it, but something could have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
    Also we need a "Show Pet Target" option now as well. I want to see who the pet is fighting. This is important if there are multiple mobs.
    You may or may not have it turned on but the show target's target option will help a bit with this. It sounds like you may be asking for it to appear in the ui by your pets health bars under your character portrait?

    Great feedback so far. Thanks and keep it rolling in!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    For the auto-targeting your pet, try turning on smart targeting in the options menu. It helped a lot with this for me, but I may be missing some downsides to it since I only played with it for a short time.

    The mana returned by Reclaim Power is getting some adjustments. I agree that in its current form its about as annoying as it is helpful.

    I'll take a look at the AoE taunt on the Knight. It was working when I last tested it, but something could have happened.



    You may or may not have it turned on but the show target's target option will help a bit with this. It sounds like you may be asking for it to appear in the ui by your pets health bars under your character portrait?

    Great feedback so far. Thanks and keep it rolling in!
    What does smart target do? Is that part of the self cast? If I target a mob and hit a heal spell, it will instead cast it on me? That wont help if I need it on the pet though. If you guys could add some tool-tip descriptions to the options, that would help because several are mysterious.

    Cast on target's target - this would be my pet as I target the mob, but how does the system know to heal the pet and not me? Does this mean the heal spell will always go to my pet and not me unless I select me or use the self cast button?

    Showing my pet's target in the UI by his portrait is what I was suggesting and would be cool if not too difficult. You could limit it to just the owner of the pet; that way in a group of pet users each person doesn't have to draw in all pets.

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    Essence Link is triggered only by Auto-Attack... not "when the pet does damage". As a result the Shadowy Revnant (caster pet that doesnt melee) never triggers Essence Link and is pretty much worthless.

    Soul Purge doesnt heal for very much, especially for a channeled ability and one that consumes Charge.

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    Just thought I would add, Consumption is currently not removing any beneficial abilities from NPC's whatsoever. Haven't tested it yet in PvP but I assume its the same case. Also, I am not sure what the case with the aoe taunt is, but if it is working then its aggro generation needs to be increased a lot. Currently isn't doing much (or anything, can't tell).

    Most of the Necromancer's damage comes from its pet, and when I have the Skeletal Knight out, I do hardly any damage at all. Perhaps increasing the Necromancer's damage from Necrosis / other spells while the Knight is out would solve this issue? Also, I do not believe Vengeful Spirit is giving my Revenant's Ruination a 100% chance to crit. when the target has Deathly Calling.

    Essence Link is currently giving me health every time on of my shambling zombies from Empty the Crypts hits a mob. This gives me an insane boost of HP and I am not sure if it is intended.

    One last thing. The Skeletal Stalwart looks so much cooler than the Skeletal Knight. =(

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhue View Post
    Essence Link is triggered only by Auto-Attack... not "when the pet does damage". As a result the Shadowy Revnant (caster pet that doesnt melee) never triggers Essence Link and is pretty much worthless.
    I think this should just be an issue with the Shadow Revenant. The abilities on the other pets should be triggering Essence Link in addition to their auto attacks. I'll double check on them though. The problem with the Shadow Revenant should be fixed and start triggering Essence Link with the next update.

    Currently the Shambling Corpses are meant to trigger Essence Link. I'll keep an eye on it, but for now its working as intended.

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    Pet armor bug was not fixed in this build, but the cannibalize the pet for mana spell now is 10% pet health for 10% of your mana (up from 5%) which is much better feeling overall.

    Also, liking the newer spell vfx as they are being plugged in each patch.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravos View Post
    Pet armor bug was not fixed in this build, but the cannibalize the pet for mana spell now is 10% pet health for 10% of your mana (up from 5%) which is much better feeling overall.
    We'll make sure to call out the pet armor fix when it gets in. I don't currently have an estimate on when that will be though.

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    That's cool, thanks for the quick response. I figured it was still in queue for a fix. I was more pointing out the stealth buff to the pet hp->caster mana ability which you had hinted was coming recently as well

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