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Thread: Started Raiding on Live servers, and Mages get no DPS slots

  1. #1
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    Started Raiding on Live servers, and Mages get no DPS slots

    Currently my raid force has room for 2-3 mages on a raid. We take a 51pt Archon, and either 1 or 2 chloro's. Currently due to Rogues embarrasing Mages on DPS we take no Mages in the DPS slots. This angers me to no end. I have been complaining about Mage dps from October to March, and still all we get are nerfs while rogues continue to be buffed.

  2. #2
    A lot of people are complaining about mages and dps , with some showing examples of a few abilities that are supposed to make up for it. I have a feeling an adjustment will have to be made cause on the whole the calling is just not performing IMO.

  3. #3
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    Did a bit of greenscale, we had a mage at 550ish DPS on duke, but yeah the rogues that weren't speced like crap were at 650+, as were the warriors, and that's with crappy gear. So yep, mages need a bit of a boost, but that's nothing new, called that stuff before retail after the big mage nerf patch, they were close, but not that close, and rogues/warriors didn't get nerfed enough/on all specs to make it even. Ranger and Beastmaster specs are the problematic specs, people who don't main these do more reasonable dmg in comparison to clerics/mage specs.

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    We've pulled all mages save 1 Archon 2 Chloros as well.

    The fact of the matter is that raid buffs prevent Charge from being used on increase damage abilities and thus cripple the main "calling mechanic" of the Mage class. In addition there are too many things that should synergize that instead conflict and you result in a class that does far too low dps on anything that isnt AE... and yet other callings can do AE that is nearly as nice.

    This really needs to be addressed and soon.

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    Nothing like being pulled only to have a mage dagger drop for the buffers who stayed in.

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    We've cleared Duke, Infiltrator, Oracle, and Hylas on live servers (I believe in the top 3 in the world for live) and across the board our mages are bottom DPS every time, even with some being our best geared characters. Coincidentally most of our best players, that I've played with for the past 5 years in many different MMO's, RTS's and Shooters play Mage, and are consistently getting destroyed by warrior and rogue dps. Trying endless soul and spec varieties consistently falls short when compared to pretty much anything.

    Throw in 5 hours of raiding and the gap widens because in order to even be considered a straggler and not outright worthless, a Mage has to scrape every single damage point out of his character with zero room for error out of one or two viable builds. As soon as you're tired and fighting mechanics that force you to constantly reposition its over.

    Every Mage in my guild that was in Alpha has been reporting this. It has fallen on deaf ears, and its playing out exactly as we predicted. No one wants a Mage.

  7. #7
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    I am one of the best geared out characters in my guild. All T2's and a little raid gear, yet I cannot even come close to competing with the warriors and rogues in my guild. Warriors wearing nothing but L50 normal dungeon gear are putting the mage to shame. This class is a complete waste of time and I regret every minute of choosing mage as my calling. Its come to the point where I dont even want to play anymore.

    Ive spent more hours on the test dummy both in live and beta than I have doing anything else in the game. Ive tried every combination of specs including hybrids and full specs to find atleast 1 build that can attempt at completing and they all fall short.

    The gap between Mage dps and rog/war is so huge its pathetic. Ive been saying this all throughout alpha and continue to feedback it on live and it falls on deaf ears. I am so extremely pissed off with Trion and the Mage dev right now that I am finding it quite hard to even type this up without going all ultra flame mode in the post.

    FIX MAGES NOW!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontra View Post
    I am finding it quite hard to even type this up without going all ultra flame mode in the post.
    My sentiments exactly

  9. #9
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    The preretail nerf was too big, it looked kinda ok when they did because they also heavily nerfed warriors and rogues(but forgot some specs, including ranger and beastmaster), but we didn't get to raid with the new values so it was based off dummy DPS which for the most part was fine. But then there's the bugs(looming demise getting overwritten, charge getting overwritten) and the non mage friendly encounters when other ranged DPS can move more freely(understand rangers aka I can do 100% DPS when kiting Necrosis Werewolf). Should have chosen to nerf either elementalist sub, or archon sub, not both at the same time.

    Incidentally, cleric casters are also complete crap, while melee clerics do fine due to synergizing better with other melees, scaling better etc. I think there's a problem with casters in general that needs to be looked at. Hell, just the fact that druids get a unique 15%AP aura, while there's no mage equivalent(the air elemental buff isn't close to 15%SP, doesn't have full uptime due to cooldown=duration and is pretty bad at DPS in comparison to satyr). But the whole having to sit still to cast spells(or worse, having to sit still in ONE SPOT due to ground of power) doesn't work well, and the base damage is too low. The easiest tweak for mages specs in general is working on charge abilities(20 to 50% for example, and increasing the lock dot by the same amount). Doesn't help ranged clerics but eh that's a start.

  10. #10
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    Do the devs even monitor this boards anymore? I havnt seen a purple name at the bottom in the user list section since fast start launched. Anyone else seen one?

    PS: Where the hell is our mage dev?

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    well atleast we are still the superior pvp class with survivability and tons of cc and burst damage....oh wait

  12. #12
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    Adding a comment of frustration as well. My alpha mage was fun ... the aoe was welcome in dungeon groups and the mage was generally fun to solo. Main build was ele/pyro for aoe and secondary build was chloro. Third build was pyro primary and I don't remember what else.

    Release is not as much fun. I started with a pyro emphasis which seemed to work ok in groups. However, while soloing it wasn't long before I noticed that most players in the same area I am kill faster and easier. The only advantage I have with the ele/pyro build is adds or multiple mobs with the pet tanking. Maybe.

    There are two big issues for me for mage:

    One, it really isn't fun. There is no zing to it, my crits seem sparse and not very dramatic, there is nothing that keeps me wanting to play my mage ... which I loved from early alpha until pre-release changes. DPS is important, yes, but also important is having the feeling that I am actually playing a real class. Right now, it's not happening.

    Two, groups. Groups just don't have a huge reason to have a nuking type mage. Archon for CC? Chloro for heal? Sure. But what mage wants to have to always play a completely narrow role in a group? And what group is going to be interested in having a mage there for drama and damage? Right now, it's not happening.

    I'm not a numbers or stats person, re dps, etc., so there's not much I can offer there. But, intuitively speaking, the mage classes don't seem entertaining even if inventively and skillfully played. It'd be so nice to see more fun and excitement in playing the class.

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    Apparently mages are too powerful and they felt the need to nerf the Archon even farther. We just went from 1 51archon and 2 chloro/archons to 1 51 archon, and 1 chloro/archon. Congrats Trion for bringing us from 3 mages on a raid to 2.

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    Mage in my guild does 800 + ST DPS. as Necro/Warlock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintt View Post
    Mage in my guild does 800 + ST DPS. as Necro/Warlock
    Is this on the dummy? And if so hw long of a parse. Ive been able to parse around 700ish on the dummy with necro/lock and I consider myself a pretty decent player. Problem is that you have to go pretty far into lock which pretty much makes the pet aoe fodder in greenscale.

    PS: 700ish is no where on track with warriors and rogues.

  16. #16
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    On Infiltrator or w/e

    How much are your warriors and rogues doing?

  17. #17
    I have been doing great on Greenscale Blight. I'm usually top three DPS and was #1 on Greenscale himself tonight doing 801 dps as extended DPS. I'm pretty content where i'm at right now.

    here's some parses:





    don't pay attention to 1k+ dps of the top three people, it's just part of specific mechanic in the fight and that's why their DPS is so bloated, but none of them were a DPS class on that fight.

    I think you're way over-exaggerating when you say mages have no place as a DPS class in a raid. Just figure out what you need to do to increase your DPS and you'll get right in.

  18. #18
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    700 isnt bad, i usually can hit that as well. My problem is that OUR rogues and warriors are doing more like 900 - 1100 ST. If 700 is what they want us to be doing in t2/raid gear im fine with that. However warriors and rogues are emabarrasing our 700 dps numbers to the point of not even bothering with bringing a dps mage. Need to either bump us up or tone them down.

    I am Glass without the Cannon

  19. #19
    Post some ACT parses from the different raid fights comparing you and the rest of your raid. There's gotta be something going on there.

  20. #20
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    Here is a ST parse from last night on Life Raid Rift. Fight is only 2:18 so its not as long as your parses. There are also random niblets that decided to just join in on the rift. The top 11 people are our raid force including the MT. Top 3 players are Warriors. Normally Myzedra would be matching their dps as a rogue but he was dead most this encounter. I have no raid parses of me playing DPS mage since we dont bring dps mages. I am playing chloro. I will post some screenshots of parses from this wednesdays raid when greenscale resets.

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