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Thread: DPS overview. 21.2.

  1. #1

    DPS overview. 21.2.

    all with good blue and T1 equipment:
    Tested on Elite Dummy

    all maxed buff ( archonselfbuff +40 int and +40 Wis )
    and long tested for best dps combination over a 3 min fight

    Sorry for non mage test, they where wis borrowed chars and iīm not perfekt.
    ( except for one rouge )

    ================================================== ==

    Melee DPS Warriro
    505- 610 dps ( deppens on combination of Skillpoints )

    Melee DPS Rouge ( with a good rar weapon )
    612 - 680 dps ( deppens on combination of Skillpoints )

    Ranged DPS Rouge ( not played by me )
    best 670 dps

    =========

    Pyromancer 51 / 4 Ele / 11 Archon
    481 dps

    Stormcaller/ Ele / Dominator
    413 dps

    Pyromancer 38 / Warloc / Archon
    465 dps

    Pyromancer / 16 Archon / Elemental
    424 dps

    Pyromancer / 10 Dominator / Archon 11
    412 dps

    ( tomorrorw german time, i will post links to cambatlogs. )
    feel free to post youre dps test with ACT

    global changes needed
    more support between classes
    direct damage spells needīs 20% more base dps
    dotīs need 50% of running time as castime bonus form spelldamage.
    direct and dot spells needīs 75% direct spelldamage and 75% dot spell damage

  2. #2
    With delta premades I was getting around 720 single target dps on my mage with a few specs. BM warrior was getting over 800 dps.

  3. #3
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    Why not take off all your gear, it would be far more accurate and then you could compare with other classes as they can do that too.
    I never understand the point in posts like this though, all the results are just so random with no material to back them up. You could just put any number down.

    The other thing is DPS isn't everything. Magi have a great advantage solely in the fact that they are range DPS. What more, there are many other none damaging abilities that can make a class very worthwhile even when it's DPS is slightly lower than another class/soul/roll.

    I'm not saying you're wrong or disagreeing with the OP. Though it just seems many have become sidetracked recently with bashing on these dummies and looking at the numbers when there are many other contributing factors which can make a class worthwhile.

  4. #4
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    What the hell are you asking

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankDark View Post
    all with good blue and T1 equipment:
    Tested on Elite Dummy

    all maxed buff ( archonselfbuff +40 int and +40 Wis )
    and long tested for best dps combination over a 3 min fight

    Sorry for non mage test, they where wis borrowed chars and iīm not perfekt.
    ( except for one rouge )

    ================================================== ==

    Melee DPS Warriro
    505- 610 dps ( deppens on combination of Skillpoints )

    Melee DPS Rouge ( with a good rar weapon )
    612 - 680 dps ( deppens on combination of Skillpoints )

    Ranged DPS Rouge ( not played by me )
    best 670 dps

    =========

    Pyromancer 51 / 4 Ele / 11 Archon
    481 dps

    Stormcaller/ Ele / Dominator
    413 dps

    Pyromancer 38 / Warloc / Archon
    465 dps

    Pyromancer / 16 Archon / Elemental
    424 dps

    Pyromancer / 10 Dominator / Archon 11
    412 dps

    ( tomorrorw german time, i will post links to cambatlogs. )
    feel free to post youre dps test with ACT

    global changes needed
    more support between classes
    direct damage spells needīs 20% more base dps
    dotīs need 50% of running time as castime bonus form spelldamage.
    direct and dot spells needīs 75% direct spelldamage and 75% dot spell damage
    is your goal here that every dd class does "X" dps. You need to get real. This ruins games and it ruins player bases and increases FOTM classes based on parses and not play style. OMG Trion don't go down this road and if you are planing on it be a man and tell us so i can go to another game. You can take your class balance and WOW players and I will save the weeks of leveling just to be a lvl 50 whatever with very little dif from the next player except gear. BTW this starts the whole gear grind just like wow. FIX SKILLS add immunity or degredation to CC and get more content in game. More important ignore these wow balance idiots they ruin every game they go to.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nerfed View Post
    With delta premades I was getting around 720 single target dps on my mage with a few specs. BM warrior was getting over 800 dps.
    BM is not representativ at the moment. Damage is most likely broken atm and will be fixed. BM in raid environment will never pull those numbers, as his pet will be dying in AoE a lot and in jousting fights BM will loose a lot of time runnning around (so loosing rotation time). One of the mages advantage is that they can stand back and nuke on when melees have to move. Testing on a dummy is a valid indicator for rough damage capabilities, but will never display actual raid performance!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caracarn View Post
    One of the mages advantage is that they can stand back and nuke on when melees have to move
    Yes, because ranged rouges spend so much time running around during a fight. They deserve to do significantly more dps than mages.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggs12 View Post
    Yes, because ranged rouges spend so much time running around during a fight. They deserve to do significantly more dps than mages.
    BM is a warrior soul calling, he wasn't talking about rogues at any point.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Red View Post
    is your goal here that every dd class does "X" dps. You need to get real. This ruins games and it ruins player bases and increases FOTM classes based on parses and not play style. OMG Trion don't go down this road and if you are planing on it be a man and tell us so i can go to another game. You can take your class balance and WOW players and I will save the weeks of leveling just to be a lvl 50 whatever with very little dif from the next player except gear. BTW this starts the whole gear grind just like wow. FIX SKILLS add immunity or degredation to CC and get more content in game. More important ignore these wow balance idiots they ruin every game they go to.
    Trion has already stated (Sweet in particular, in these very alpha forums), clearly, that they have goals for single target dps classes, and balance around them. They went as far as to say they have specific DPS expectations for a given level and gear level. So take your whining and leave as promised. They don't need to be a man, they already said it. Search is your friend.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    BM is a warrior soul calling, he wasn't talking about rogues at any point.
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankDark View Post

    ================================================== ==

    Melee DPS Warriro
    505- 610 dps ( deppens on combination of Skillpoints )

    Melee DPS Rouge ( with a good rar weapon )
    612 - 680 dps ( deppens on combination of Skillpoints )

    Ranged DPS Rouge ( not played by me )
    best 670 dps

    =========

    Pyromancer 51 / 4 Ele / 11 Archon
    481 dps

    Stormcaller/ Ele / Dominator
    413 dps

    Pyromancer 38 / Warloc / Archon
    465 dps

    Pyromancer / 16 Archon / Elemental
    424 dps

    Pyromancer / 10 Dominator / Archon 11
    412 dps

    ( tomorrorw german time, i will post links to cambatlogs. )
    feel free to post youre dps test with ACT
    Try reading the OP

    Ranged rouges parsed higher on the OP's tests than warrior dps and significantly higher than any mage.

    To be specific, mages parsed 29% lower than a comparably equiped ranged rouge and 21% lower than a dps warrior.
    With numbers like this, very few mages will be accepted into groups for anything other than Chloromancer, or possibly Archon.

  10. #10
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    So trion has stated expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmid View Post
    Trion has already stated (Sweet in particular, in these very alpha forums), clearly, that they have goals for single target dps classes, and balance around them. They went as far as to say they have specific DPS expectations for a given level and gear level. So take your whining and leave as promised. They don't need to be a man, they already said it. Search is your friend.
    This isnt about an expectation this is about a certain target dps and no variables. In other words no skill, playstyle, or even gimmick that you can use to shift the tides of battle. What I dont need is classes to be so generic so that no one whines about them. I would like to see all the broken skills fixed first. Right now I see tons of changes that wont get fully tested going into a live game. I dont see this so called balance or expectation i see broke *** souls and increasingly limited options.

    Since you seem to be the knower of all things tell me how to build a viable lvl 50 tank without paladin? You cant cause it has damage mitigation that you really need. How come a rogue mitigates damage without being hit and a shield tank only mitigates a percentage and then they give rogues 10,000 hps and tanks get about 6,500 in decent blue gear maybe 8k in t1 gear. How come when im tank spec I get hit for 50% health and the rogue gets hit for nothing and has 35% more health? Will Justicar be the tank of the future? Come on buddy do you see where im going you try to make everyone happy you end up making no one happy. Fix the skills and get some content in game and lets get this thing live.

    Don't make stealth nerfs and please disclose the changes in your patch notes and we will be just fine. If you search my post you will see im more upset with the fact we dont even get things tested and they revamp them. I believe Trion is also guilty of not disclosing everything in patch notes and a lot of us vetern MMO players know what that does when we go live. An even playing field and balance really starts with the Company and its community. Set the expectation there first by not bowing to every whiner or FOTM class build and second stating everything upfront for the people who choose to pay to play their intellectual property.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Red View Post
    This isnt about an expectation this is about a certain target dps and no variables. In other words no skill, playstyle, or even gimmick that you can use to shift the tides of battle. What I dont need is classes to be so generic so that no one whines about them. I would like to see all the broken skills fixed first. Right now I see tons of changes that wont get fully tested going into a live game. I dont see this so called balance or expectation i see broke *** souls and increasingly limited options.

    Since you seem to be the knower of all things tell me how to build a viable lvl 50 tank without paladin? You cant cause it has damage mitigation that you really need. How come a rogue mitigates damage without being hit and a shield tank only mitigates a percentage and then they give rogues 10,000 hps and tanks get about 6,500 in decent blue gear maybe 8k in t1 gear. How come when im tank spec I get hit for 50% health and the rogue gets hit for nothing and has 35% more health? Will Justicar be the tank of the future? Come on buddy do you see where im going you try to make everyone happy you end up making no one happy. Fix the skills and get some content in game and lets get this thing live.

    Don't make stealth nerfs and please disclose the changes in your patch notes and we will be just fine. If you search my post you will see im more upset with the fact we dont even get things tested and they revamp them. I believe Trion is also guilty of not disclosing everything in patch notes and a lot of us vetern MMO players know what that does when we go live. An even playing field and balance really starts with the Company and its community. Set the expectation there first by not bowing to every whiner or FOTM class build and second stating everything upfront for the people who choose to pay to play their intellectual property.
    Well reading your post, it seems we agree on much, but I think you got the wrong impression from the OP. What is being discussed here is simple that mages can no longer fulfill their primary role (dps) as well as other classes - namely rogues - can because of the continued shuffling and nerfing of skills. This is not all that much different than what you are saying about tanks. I don't care about balance or pvp as much as I care about being able to contribute dps to a raid as a dps class. Right now, rogues are doing it better, and warriors were doing it better (before some of the recent nerfs).

    I don't care about 1v1 pvp balance. I care about raid contribution balance. There is no reason to bring anything more than 1 chloromancer and 1 archon to a raid right now. That is not to say that mages are terrible or incredibly gimp, but they are outclassed in one of if not THE primary role they were intended to fill: dps. The devs (or at least their representatives) have stated they want classes to perform at XXX level at a given role, level and gearset. The point being made is that they are currently falling short in this stated goal and nullifying the need for dps mages.

    Your original post stated that we need to 'get real' if we expect our dd class (I would be content with even just our best dd soul) being on part with other dd classes. Yet you complain that warriors aren't tanking as well as rogues. Either you didn't come across properly in your original post, or you are being quite the hypocrite.

    Mages are just asking to be made viable in the primary role mages are generally build around: dps. This post provides some information on how short they are falling for one individual pointing this out. If mages aren't fixed, there are just going to be a whole lot of rogues and clerics in the game, with warriors and mages filling in minor vanity spots. You asked me how to build a viable tank without a paladin, and I would answer at least you can build a viable tank. Right now, mages don't really have not one viable dps spec that can compete with dps specced rogues. Tempest previously was the mage's Paladin: the one thing that allowed mages to compete. How would you feel if they nerfed the paladin soul to where there wasn't a single viable tank spec that could come close to competing with Rifstalkers at tanking? That is basically what you are asking mages to deal with when you come into this forum and state that they don't need to be rebalanced. You want to see skills fixed first, fine. So do I. Why don't we work together to accomplish these goals, rather than come in here and tell mages to quit whining and QQing because it will ruin the game, and then go back to the warrior forum and do the same exact thing you say we are doing wrong here.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggs12 View Post
    Yes, because ranged rouges spend so much time running around during a fight. They deserve to do significantly more dps than mages.
    Not true. Assassins, bladedancers, and to a lesser extent Nightblades run around more. If marksmen or rangers are running around more than mages, it's only because they can. Mages are forced to stand still and cast to achieve max dps. They also have less range than MM/Rangers, and do less dps while being stuck in one spot for second at a time. Canceling a cast to move only causes a greater discrepancy in dps.

    Rogues don't deserve to do significantly more damage than mages do. I play a rogue in alpha, and the whole "rogues run around chasing bosses more than mages and are just as squishy" thing that rogues portray is a total fallacy. Mages have less HP (especially as Pyros), are less mobile, have less defense, and with ranged rogues, have longer cast times and shorter range, yet they do less dps.

    The two classes should be close to equal, if not equal with comparable gear and specced for DD. Anyone saying differently is completely biased for one or the other. There is absolutely no reason for the discrepancy being seen as of this most recent patch.

  13. #13
    Hey guys, they're not called "rouges" they're called "rogues."

    Carry on.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brangdha View Post
    Hey guys, they're not called "rouges" they're called "rogues."

    Carry on.
    Lol. Love the sig to go along with the grammar police post. I had to double check and make sure I wasn't talking about makeup (I wasn't unless I missed spelling somewhere!).

  15. #15
    Look at your crit chance.

    It was nerfed with Warriors to be 1 Spell Crit = .0379 (.04 rounded up).

    Rogues have .06 and Clerics .05

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brangdha View Post
    Hey guys, they're not called "rouges" they're called "rogues."

    Carry on.
    QFE
    I'm glad I'm not the only one that gets bugged by this!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminati View Post
    Look at your crit chance.

    It was nerfed with Warriors to be 1 Spell Crit = .0379 (.04 rounded up).

    Rogues have .06 and Clerics .05
    Are you sure that's right? Looking at my level 38 mage on alpha right now with a crit rating of 235, tooltip says 11.54% (0.049 if my calculations are correct). Level 1 mage I just rolled with crit rating of 10, tooltip says 5%.

  18. #18
    ah sorry for the rouges / rogues mistyping

    but, after this post they nerfd them ( but it was not realy nerfing itīs more bring it back on the same line )
    so maybee i should now misspell warriorīs

    i hope i have time this evening and get the accounts of my friends again to test new dps after the changes.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red View Post
    This isnt about an expectation this is about a certain target dps and no variables. In other words no skill, playstyle, or even gimmick that you can use to shift the tides of battle. What I dont need is classes to be so generic so that no one whines about them. I would like to see all the broken skills fixed first. Right now I see tons of changes that wont get fully tested going into a live game. I dont see this so called balance or expectation i see broke *** souls and increasingly limited options.

    Since you seem to be the knower of all things tell me how to build a viable lvl 50 tank without paladin? You cant cause it has damage mitigation that you really need. How come a rogue mitigates damage without being hit and a shield tank only mitigates a percentage and then they give rogues 10,000 hps and tanks get about 6,500 in decent blue gear maybe 8k in t1 gear. How come when im tank spec I get hit for 50% health and the rogue gets hit for nothing and has 35% more health? Will Justicar be the tank of the future? Come on buddy do you see where im going you try to make everyone happy you end up making no one happy. Fix the skills and get some content in game and lets get this thing live.

    Don't make stealth nerfs and please disclose the changes in your patch notes and we will be just fine. If you search my post you will see im more upset with the fact we dont even get things tested and they revamp them. I believe Trion is also guilty of not disclosing everything in patch notes and a lot of us vetern MMO players know what that does when we go live. An even playing field and balance really starts with the Company and its community. Set the expectation there first by not bowing to every whiner or FOTM class build and second stating everything upfront for the people who choose to pay to play their intellectual property.
    With out test like this how do you test? Me i usually tested all the mage builds while a friend tested all the rogue builds. While dummy testing doesn't give you all the variables it does give you a decent base line you can use. After you have done all the instances and raids(as we both had) you can tell what its gonna be like in those situations. Right now mages CAN NOT fill a DPS role in a group or raid. Its the same as it was about 6 patches ago for rogues, where the only good role for them was bards. Mages only good roles right now are healer or archon. To bring in a mage as a dps is bad choice, THIS NEEDS FIXED.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballads View Post
    With out test like this how do you test? Me i usually tested all the mage builds while a friend tested all the rogue builds. While dummy testing doesn't give you all the variables it does give you a decent base line you can use. After you have done all the instances and raids(as we both had) you can tell what its gonna be like in those situations. Right now mages CAN NOT fill a DPS role in a group or raid. Its the same as it was about 6 patches ago for rogues, where the only good role for them was bards. Mages only good roles right now are healer or archon. To bring in a mage as a dps is bad choice, THIS NEEDS FIXED.
    Ballads sums up the issue that most have at the moment.
    Most Raid guilds will choose an average playing Rogue over a more skilled Mage (DPS wise) due to the current limitations.

    I am sure this will all work out (As these things tend to)...but for now, this is what Mages are "discussing".

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