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Thread: DPS overview. 21.2.

  1. #21
    One of the sad things I have seen lately in discussing some of the disadvantages of mage dps with people playing dps rogues and warriors is their view of mages. Now these are beta players who don't even know about the alpha changes and have not been told that the issue is much larger than beta represents.

    When I made a comment that many people play acaster based classes to do damage. They understand that they give up HP and wear cloth armor making them over all squishy targets that can't take abuse because they know they can do the big hits or kill multiple targets quickly (AoE). After all big hits and being able to kill fast is the main tool of survival for a caster based class.

    Their response was Why do I think that mages need to also do damage? After all they can heal, buff, and crowd control why do they need to do damage as well? Besides they didn't think any calling should be able to take on more than 1 mob at a time without dieing and any calling that can fight 2 or 3 mobs at a time deserves to be nerfed because they are OP.

    The more than one mob comment came from me saying that I could pull 3 or 4 mobs 2 or 3 levels lower than me and kill them before I died using ice shield and elemental pet to gain initial agro until my Forked Lightening or lightening field pulled agro. Most times the mobs would die about the time my shield wore off or I would take about 20-30% dmg by the time they died. Now they don't know that with the changes on 2-18-11 I am no longer able to do this...now when I try to kill mobs 3 or 4 lvls below me I end up dead before the mobs die. Ironically the very person who made this comment about killing more than 1 mob had just been complaining about mobs lower level than him slowing him as he tried to run through the caves to get to Foul Crusade. When I pointed out that he just had a problem with mobs lower level than him being able to hit him yet a mage being able to kill 2 or 3 mobs lower level than the mage is just wrong. He commented back say yea but he had 5 levels or more on the mobs so they shouldn't be able to hurt him (lawl).

    Anyway back to their original comment that why did I think mages needed to do damage since they have so many other options. When I said that typically mage based classes are primary damage dealers in every game of this type ever played even going back to the original DnD desktop game and MUD's. They respond by saying this is not your typical game. I should not expect callings to be the same as they have always been...that is the "great" thing about this game it is breaking the mold on what people expect. They are firm in their belief that since mages can heal (which is a unique thing to this game really), Buff (again fairly unique to this game in the extent archons buff), and crowd control (this is a typical role for mages in most other releases) they should not expect to do damage as well. That is like having your cake and eating it too. That if one calling can do all that why even play any of the other callings.

    Needless to say I was pretty frustrated with their view and sadly still many of the people siding with this debate come from other MMO's like EQ and WoW. Many also said they submitted feedback after the beta's commenting on this very dynamic. Funny thing to point out though...as soon as you make a comment about plate being able to do so much dps they have no problem with that even when thrown the typical plate = tank role (high dmg mitigation low damage). They say its nice that this game gives plate wearer's the chance to actually be more than a meat shield and think there is nothing wrong with it at all.

    Anyway after about 45 min of debating these "experts" on vent I logged off.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tharangus View Post
    Are you sure that's right? Looking at my level 38 mage on alpha right now with a crit rating of 235, tooltip says 11.54% (0.049 if my calculations are correct). Level 1 mage I just rolled with crit rating of 10, tooltip says 5%.
    I did the math awhile ago, but I got .03791....... as my calculations as well.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbolini View Post
    Ballads sums up the issue that most have at the moment.
    Most Raid guilds will choose an average playing Rogue over a more skilled Mage (DPS wise) due to the current limitations.

    I am sure this will all work out (As these things tend to)...but for now, this is what Mages are "discussing".
    Exactly This +1

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontra View Post
    I did the math awhile ago, but I got .03791....... as my calculations as well.
    Seems to me this is more of a diminishing returns scale than a straight linear scale. Would explain the variance, I think.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by tharangus View Post
    Seems to me this is more of a diminishing returns scale than a straight linear scale. Would explain the variance, I think.
    Or it could diminish with level. That way 100 +crit rating at lvl 30 is a lot more powerful than the same crit rating at lvl 50.

  6. #26
    after some small testings yesterday:

    Rouge Range
    51 Marksman
    420 DPS

    Marksman Hunter with Raptor
    450 - 480 dps

    Marksman without pet
    440 - 470 dps

    Max dex combination
    360 dps

    Old Marksman combinations
    380-420 dps



    So still a bit better than mages but fitting in the 20% less than CC Rogue.
    no changes for mages ( only small diffrences )

  7. #27
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    The crit percents do change over time. It was stated in the warrior forums by Sweet that it degrades over level. So you are correct that 100 crit at level 30 (spell or melee) returns a higher percent chance than 100 crit at level 50. You get a better crit chance at lower level per number than higher level.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankDark View Post
    after some small testings yesterday:

    Rouge Range
    51 Marksman
    420 DPS

    Marksman Hunter with Raptor
    450 - 480 dps

    Marksman without pet
    440 - 470 dps

    Max dex combination
    360 dps

    Old Marksman combinations
    380-420 dps

    So still a bit better than mages but fitting in the 20% less than CC Rogue.
    no changes for mages ( only small diffrences )
    So from this, ranged rogues seem to go from 360 to 480 dps.

    Mages seem to go from 410-480 dps.

    Is this a correct interpretation of your latest tests?

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