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Thread: Really? Warrior following has been completely gutted for DPS now.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyameArai View Post
    Rogues have been beaten with the nerfbat quite a bit in the past week, so pardon me if im being a little sceptic about the statement regarding that versatility of the rogue builds that reach the 700-750 figure before I actually see some dummy parses and a good variety of specs posted.

    Now can't say I'm an expert about saboteurs for example, but I'd be surprised if there is a saboteur spec that can parse 700-750 single target DPS self buffed against a boss practise dummy. Which would already shrink down the list to Assassin, Ranger, Nightblade and Marksman.

    Out of which the top parsing ranged builds revolve around having the ranger pet along with a significant point investment to buff the said pet (which apparently are useless in 90% of the encounters according to posts in this thread) to bring your dps up to decent levels. So yeah, there are a few specs that are performing bit better than others, but when looking at the rogue calling as a whole - you see a pretty clear pattern as to what is being utilized in the builds that parse well and what isn't. Rather than being some form of a super awesome calling where most of the souls are totally viable and can pull 750 DPS just like that.

    But I guess this is already going way off-topic for this thread.
    I'm going off the results I'm seeing in our IRC from Xep and Draegan, there's a sab spec(I don't know the details) that parses 680DPS on the boss dummy in full T2 gear(delta gear), there's a NS spec that parses over 750 and there's a sin spec that also parse that. I'm pretty sure they're only testing melees because there's a ranger spec that parse the same but is boring as hell to play, I'm not too sure about MM or BD though. The pet thing is from someone who apparently can't press one key everytime he has to joust(which is like 5times over 2minutes on Duke, same frequency but over 5mins on Hylas).

    So yeah, that's a pretty large amount of specs that can still lead DPS by a good margin, at least based on dummy DPS which isn't entirely accurate obviously, but still. This is relevant to the discussion since in my opinion they nerfed warrior DPS across the board because they were too high, when on almost all of our raids warriors and rogues are usually together at the top of DPS charts(or it's ranged rogues and mages if it's an AE fight like Duke). That's why I expect rogue nerfs, even if you got nerfed in every last patches(hint, so did warriors). I mean warriors have literally been nerfed non stop for the past like 3months, and until last patch, they were STILL NOT nerfed enough. That shows how much ahead they were, but I'm sure it's quite frustrating for warriors especially the ones that don't know why they're getting nerfed(basically anyone that hasn't raided). Warriors have been leading DPS for like the past 6months, it's only recently that other roles got competitive(as in within 20% of warrior DPS).

    Maybe they overdid it on some specs, and they definitely forgot the beastmaster in the deal, so I'd expect BSM nerfs too.

  2. #62
    I'm finding myself a bit in between thoughts. While I believe in the fact that you guys didn't set out to take a swing at the entire calling it sure does feel like it. This is mostly due to all the adjustments hitting our dps trees with stacking effects. Making the solo adjustments been hit harder than maybe was intended.

    That being said I do believe some of the adjusted abilities were warranted (lol pacts) to bring these souls in line. This however hasn't solved all the issues and should still be work in progress . I get that warriors dps souls are more in line with what Trion would like them to be. I myself believe we should be between where we were last patch and where we are now as it seems we dropped a bit too far. However my main concern lies with that one week from release we still haven't seen the tanking issues patch we have been hoping for (or at least I have). Are we mainly where Trion wants us to be with all the souls or can we expect more big adjustments that are in the works?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyros View Post
    I'm going off the results I'm seeing in our IRC from Xep and Draegan, there's a sab spec(I don't know the details) that parses 680DPS on the boss dummy in full T2 gear(delta gear), there's a NS spec that parses over 750 and there's a sin spec that also parse that. I'm pretty sure they're only testing melees because there's a ranger spec that parse the same but is boring as hell to play, I'm not too sure about MM or BD though. The pet thing is from someone who apparently can't press one key everytime he has to joust(which is like 5times over 2minutes on Duke, same frequency but over 5mins on Hylas).

    So yeah, that's a pretty large amount of specs that can still lead DPS by a good margin, at least based on dummy DPS which isn't entirely accurate obviously, but still. This is relevant to the discussion since in my opinion they nerfed warrior DPS across the board because they were too high, when on almost all of our raids warriors and rogues are usually together at the top of DPS charts(or it's ranged rogues and mages if it's an AE fight like Duke). That's why I expect rogue nerfs, even if you got nerfed in every last patches(hint, so did warriors).
    Yeah, it is the few specs that are built up on the same base build more or less that parse higher than the rest of the specs - saboteur reaching those figures is news to me though, which I suppose should be no surprise cause I've not played sabs much at all.

    But yeah, I fully expect some rogue specs to get hammered down even more although when/if that happens it will be interesting to see how badly it wrecks the calling as a whole because a lot of specs are not parsing exactly impressive figures. But who knows, maybe those figures are where the internal goal for the DPS actually is.

  4. #64
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    TBH I feared even worse. Power regeneration nerf I can't understand thou, if anything it was way too low (at least for tanks) even before patch. Would make a lot more sense if rogues were better in burst dam and then have energy prob while warriors would bring in solid dps without that great burst. But atm rogue energy reg is as smooth as you could ever dream while warriors suffer badly. In raids/group I really feel gimped if someone can't lower ability costs by 10%, up to the point feeling half broken (ya and whining a lot in TS about lack of good support builds ). Well need to see how parses go after fiery burst and BM pet (which still sounds to be bugged, potentially HUGE problem on raids) are fixed.

    ps. Some 'nerfs' were very much needed, like pact conversion. I really don't believe pacts were ever intented to mostly gained from attack points, but that's how it was in many builds. I'm just happy I can stop using that ability.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezic View Post
    Not that it matters, but your wrong. In the Rogue section under a thread titled "Rogue Balance" an official said:

    "We are currently trying to hit an approximately 400 Single Target DPS for a player who just reached level 50 on a Normal Practice Dummy, assuming you are spec purely for single target DPS. This will exclude gear acquired from level 50 regular dungeons and expert level dungeons. "

    They also elaborated later with:

    "That will be the goal across all callings who are spec for single target DPS."

    Obviously that number has changed

    I don't know why you would not want the players to have information like the above. If everyone knew that 400dps was the baseline for all dps classes then we could start to intelligently test and give feedback. If I found a 600dps build I know it was going to get nerfed. If the Warrior dps spec is doing 520 and rogues/ mages/ cleric dps is doing 400 I know its getting nerfed. But if no one knows whats supposed to be happening then we can all run around screaming nerfs. People still don't know if the warrior dps is supposed to match the rogue/ mage. Half the board posts seem to be about X should do 30% less than Y flat out. How is that helpful.

    I think this policy should be reviewed. You will notice in the thread the people did not seem to care about the fact that everyone is supposed to be at the same level. They cared about the fact that 400dps seemed like a VERY low level across the board. You can tell people that X is the baseline number and then let them provide parses for you. Or leave them in the dark and let them fight over basic unknowns back and forth between callings. Seems like an easy choice if you really want to make progress on balance.

    Just to be clear I am not saying the warrior dps was fine. From the parses I have seen certain combos did appear to be pretty high. But the change does effect the warriors DPS builds across the board it seems and by a large margin. While still leaving the tank class broken when it comes to damage from anything but physical. Weather the changes were intended as a nerf to the entire Archtype or not ( I believe they were not) the effect appears to be the same. And even if it was not intended, I am sure it was noticed in the process. But either way it does not matter now.

    I hope this reads and sounds acceptable. Its late and I am tired so if its a bit confusing or insulting or just plain wrong I blame the Nigori Saki. Nerf Saki, or at least modify it

    So whats next Sweet? What do you want/ need from us?
    However different callings/soul may scale better/worse as they acquire better gear..

    Dunno

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    By “There wasn’t some major sweeping nerf to warriors in this patch” I mean “We didn’t set out to nerf Warriors across the board because we think they’re fundamentally broken”. There were a number of targeted changes made to specific builds that we weren’t happy with. Some of these were made over a week ago internally and simply weren’t published to Alpha yet. With all of them landing at once I’m certain some of you feel like we decided to just go out and nerf Warriors as a whole but this simple isn’t true and I'm sorry if that's how it appears. If you were using a popular build then yeah you were probably affected by the changes, hence the reason it was probably popular. Warriors should still have very viable DPS; we expect them to be in raids and DPSing as we do with all Callings. And like all callings I’m sure there is still both broken and underperforming builds out there what we’ll adjust over time.
    How is a reduction in +%dmg buffs and a reduction in (almost) all energy regen abilities not "nerf[ing] Warriors across the board"? Or was it done for a reason other than thinking they're fundamentally broken?

    Your "targeted changes to some builds" managed to hit pretty much every build.

    Time to roll a Sab I guess, since they actually got buffed (via a bug fix) this patch.

  7. #67
    I run what I can gather a less desired build than most. 44 Paragon, 14 Paladin, 8 Champ. Granted was not the top dps build at the time pre patch. How ever my previous dps was:

    Alpha Server, T2 Box Warrior DPS Gear, Boss Test Dummy, ACT Parse: 534-560
    Delta Server, T2 Box Warrior DPS Gear, Boss Test Dummy, ACT Parse: 578-614

    Did not get a chance to check delta last night but on Alpha I am down about 30 dps.

    This build did not affect my build as much as others I would presume but this is what Noticed.

    Rising Water fall is down 10 points of damage per hit. Most likely from Champ +10% Str down from 15%.

    Deadly Grace can now only proc every three seconds. So I no longer get the extra damage constantly.
    Also Deadly Grace damage is down 40points of damage per hit. Previous 120 damage now only hits for 80.

    Not noticing any difference from double jeopardy change.

    Grim satisfaction change from Champion did not effect my dps in any way shape or form. 1.5 sec global GS still keeps me pretty much topped off.

    Overall patch not that big of affect to my particular combination of souls. That being said,

    I would like to know if there is a War Soul combination that can achieve over 600 dps, further more is there a War dps soul that can even get close to 700.

    edit: rephrase this.. Since I only have a Sabo build and a RStalker build on my Rog I can not intelligently assume what other rog dps is. However if in fact true that other rogues can achieve a maintained dps of uper 600's pushing 700. There really does need to be some re-balancing Currently my Sabo is low 600's peak mid 600's and can burst near 1k. FOr the most part on average maintained is low to mid 6's. Since I am not as involved with this roll as I am others I am sure more adept players at the sabo could possibly pull off more.

  8. #68
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    Yes I am doing over 900 dps. Your build is just...not very good. Asking for warrior buffs when you are playing a bad spec doesn't make much sense.

  9. #69
    This was much needed, great job trion.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintt View Post
    Yes I am doing over 900 dps.
    Since the patch that "destroyed the warrior following" according to the OP ? (its a calling btw)

    Because to my knowledge, thats still top dps ingame besides maybe 2 rogue builds that are slightly ahead. So whats the problem?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Khruxx View Post
    Since the patch that "destroyed the warrior following" according to the OP ? (its a calling btw)

    Because to my knowledge, thats still top dps ingame besides maybe 2 rogue builds that are slightly ahead. So whats the problem?
    The problem is that they arent WAYY ahead in dps..

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by musufasa View Post
    The problem is that they arent WAYY ahead in dps..
    If 900 dps is a destroyed calling, what is the Shaman's 600dps? Get over yourselves, your like spoilt children.

  13. #73
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    Musufasa is a rogue emo boy celebrating warriors got nerfed. Think you misunderstood him.

  14. #74
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    And I think that my dps is a result of a combination of bugs. Fiery burst, enraged companion bite, and its damage buff are all bugged.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintt View Post
    Musufasa is a rogue emo boy celebrating warriors got nerfed. Think you misunderstood him.
    I am not happy that warriors got nerfed my good sir, I am happy that they are finally balancing warriors so that we dont have to raid with a party full of warriors and healers.

  16. #76
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    This is what you get when you don't test raiding (and PvP) until a month before launch.

  17. #77
    Alejo is a great player but he/she is total geared with epic stuff
    i have been saying for the last couple of months that these small warriors nerfs/changes are starting to add up,and this last patch just proved my point.my warrior dps build was out parsed by a guildmate's rogue in tank spec.maybe i did my dps build wrong but i was using this build for months and i have slowly watched it wither away to almost nothing.



    ps has Raive posted yet,i would like his insight
    Musufasa has played for what, 1 and 1/2 months? probly has invited to test raiding with his friends. buffed to lvl 50 and given epic gear.if so he has no insight i care to bother with,if he worked his/her way up sorry but i do not like his/her attitude.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamsai View Post
    my warrior dps build was out parsed by a guildmate's rogue in tank spec..
    this is realy hard to believe, sorry. if your are using the riftstalkers agro generating skills you deal zero DPS. rogue tank build require a lot of points in riftstalker, theres not much left for dps.

    44 points in rift are minimum for me, 8 bard for HP and -3% crits etc, rest bladedancer for parry, riposte etc.

    if you cant beat that with a warrior dps build, you must do something wrong?!

  19. #79
    nm you are right,we were doing rifts and he started in tank spec but switched after the second rift

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by lamsai View Post
    Musufasa has played for what, 1 and 1/2 months? probly has invited to test raiding with his friends. buffed to lvl 50 and given epic gear.if so he has no insight i care to bother with,if he worked his/her way up sorry but i do not like his/her attitude.
    Been playing for 5 months. Dont have to like my attitude, I am not here to make friends. If you wanted to be a top dps you had to be warrior, things are changing for the better now.

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