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Thread: Pyromancer Feedback

  1. #1
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    Pyromancer Feedback

    Hey everyone, I've seen feedback for 2 of the 3 starting mage classes, but haven't seen much on the Pyromancer beyond Withering Flames. What's the good and bad you've seen with the class? Favorite tactics? Spell that you never use or the one that you couldn't live without? What's missing from it?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik
    Hey everyone, I've seen feedback for 2 of the 3 starting mage classes, but haven't seen much on the Pyromancer beyond Withering Flames. What's the good and bad you've seen with the class? Favorite tactics? Spell that you never use or the one that you couldn't live without? What's missing from it?
    The good, damage output for single target and a decent AOE way up in the tree. The Ground abilities are fantastic though if I plot them in a figure 8 formation I can benefit from more than one.

    Bad in the class, AOE is too high up in the tree. Not much variation in abilities, mostly just fireball et al. With a few DoTs or instants thrown in for fun.

    Favorite tactic combines Stormcaller and Pyro, freeze them and burn them down before they even come close to getting a hit off. Using the armor that procs Cinderburst as an instant where appropriate.

    Lots of spells I never use, its mostly just fireball, countdown, and cinderburst. Occasionally, a ground effect if I think the fight is going to be long, AOE if its multiple mobs...

    Can't live without Cinderburst and the Armor proc, thats pure awesome.

    Missing, AOE, and Mana regen. The ground effect mana regen is ENTIRELY too low. As in, not worth casting too low, or worth points in talents too low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smaggler View Post
    The Ground abilities are fantastic though if I plot them in a figure 8 formation I can benefit from more than one.
    Just a note, the stacking of the Ground abilities is unintentional. A fix for them stacking should be going in with one of the next builds.

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    I enjoy the pyromancer. It seems to be the default "nuker" solo soul for mages. The higher branched talents give things like the insta-cast effects which are handy to use and break up the monotony of fireball spam and the Ground spells are a very nice touch. The notification that the insta-cast effects have gone off in the form of a graphic or audio cue would be nice as opposed to just having to stare at the buff icons.

    I paired my Pyromancer with Elementalist until level 30 or so using the 0-point elemental as a distraction while I fireball'd like mad. From 30 on I've paired it with Stormcaller as the poster above said both for the snare and the recharge ability. Currently every mage from 30+ seems to have 0 point chloromancer thrown into the mix as well, but that may change when the final two mage souls show up.

    My only gripe about the AEs for Pyromancers is that Backdraft seems a bit silly with the current global cooldown. In principle one could use Backdraft and the follow up with the normal fire AE...but in practice the global cooldown means that backdraft has largely been wasted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhue View Post
    The notification that the insta-cast effects have gone off in the form of a graphic or audio cue would be nice as opposed to just having to stare at the buff icons.
    Actually this comment is very appropriate to ALL mage souls. I would really like some audio (and potentially visual) signal that I just gained some ability like "insta-cast your next spell" or no-mana cast next spell, etc. If there is audio today, I've never heard it (so make it louder).

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    I have an elementalist/pyromancer at level 24. Haven't experimented with other combinations yet but love sending my pet out to tank and then using the extra pyro skills to try to kill as fast as possible. Grin, not sure this is efficient but it's been fun so far except for the frequent downtimes for mana regen.

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    The only thing I didn't like about my Pyromancer, was the severe lack of mana regen. I think I ended up sitting down to drink after almost every fight, and definitely every 2. Perhaps this is just intended to be the drawback to the class from 1-15 - but it was enough for me to switch to stormcaller/warlock after I hit 15.

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    I found the pyro lacking the survivability which the warlock does have at the lower levels 1-20 (perhaps higher as well, not there yet), even when paired with a chloromancer soul.
    This isn't an issue if the pyro would have powerful abilities to offset this, however, this isn't the case.

    Another thing i dislike is the huge powerdrain.

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    I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

    My Pyromancer is now approaching 40 and is so massively powerful its getting silly.

    Pyromancer/warlock seems to be the most devestating combination using points mainly in pyromancer but going into warlock for bonus damage to DoTs. With this combination plus buffs and ground of power you can see withering plames hitting the 10,000 damage mark easily for one cast at around my level at 50 I anticipate 20,000 or more per cast. Once every 30 seconds doing 20,000 damage gives me 666.6 reccuring dps and thats before i cast a single other spell, and remember fireball does a DoT as well. With points put into instant cast cynder blasts and 3 0 cooldown instacasts on another spell you can see the damage potential.

    Since i got withering flames there has not been a single mob in the game (outside instances) that I haven't been able to 1 shot. Not sure if this is intended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samsbase View Post
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

    My Pyromancer is now approaching 40 and is so massively powerful its getting silly.

    Pyromancer/warlock seems to be the most devestating combination using points mainly in pyromancer but going into warlock for bonus damage to DoTs. With this combination plus buffs and ground of power you can see withering plames hitting the 10,000 damage mark easily for one cast at around my level at 50 I anticipate 20,000 or more per cast. Once every 30 seconds doing 20,000 damage gives me 666.6 reccuring dps and thats before i cast a single other spell, and remember fireball does a DoT as well. With points put into instant cast cynder blasts and 3 0 cooldown instacasts on another spell you can see the damage potential.

    Since i got withering flames there has not been a single mob in the game (outside instances) that I haven't been able to 1 shot. Not sure if this is intended.
    The drawback is the massive amounts of mana you consume. You'll need a stormcaller battery or some mean mana pots to take care of it.

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    drinking is so fast in rift it doesn't really matter anyway though :S

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    Well yeah you can do serious damage with Withering Flames, but you need Charge to do that and it has a cooldown so that does balance it out.

    Most of the DPS classes seem capable of being able to drop a serious OUCH on single target non elite/heroic/whatever mobs.

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    I was testing full charge withering flames on elites in firesand the other day and they went down awfully fast. Burning Bonds / Withering Flames meant one dead elite. I believe its damage might need scaled down a bit or done over a longer period of time. If its used in PvP there's no chance the other guy is going to live.

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    I think its already readily apparent that PVP and PVE will be using somewhat different rulesets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhue View Post
    I think its already readily apparent that PVP and PVE will be using somewhat different rulesets.
    Just throwing it out there to fuel my argument. =p

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    Pyromancer was my first mage tryout. Only got her to level 14 as I found her really squishy and far too mana intensive....little did I know that all mana users would be the same.
    Rosy - 50 Cleric
    Wisteria - 50 Mage
    Liziana - 50 Cleric
    Jazzi - 48 Rogue

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    Alright, here we go. I levelled almost exclusively as a Pyromancer all the way to 50, and here is my best analysis of every ability and spell we have. Abilities and spells are scored at the end of each entry. Please note this applies primarily to PvE play, as I have had no chance to PvP with the Pyro. Naturally this is all my opinion as well, and may not be gospel. Other people may get a lot of use out of abilities I found mediocre, or vice versa.

    Abilities:
    Tier 1
    Improved Fireball: Increases fireball crit chance by 5/10/15%. Great starter, since fireball is the attack you will spam most often. Not 100% sure it's working as well as it is supposed to, since my fireballs don't seem to crit as often as the stats would suggest, or even noticeably more often than any of my fire spells. I don't have the #'s yet though. Still, fantastic in theory. 5/5 if it works properly.

    Ignition: Decreases fire spell cast times by 4/8/12/16/20%. Solid choice, and you'll likely end up taking this on your way further up the tree as it is more useful than Fiery Concentration. 3/5

    Fiery Concentration: Reduces Fireball/Cinder Burst pushback by 33/66/100. Totally unnecessary in PvE at least. The pushback you get while taking damage is very slight, and a vast majority of the mobs you fight won't even make it to you. 2/5

    Tier 2
    Combust: Fireball has 20% chance to do an additional 30% of its damage over 8 seconds. Mediocre. Not a terrible choice at all, but the DoT isn't noticeable for the most part. I imagine it becomes more of a factor as you build your gear (and in longer fights), but at 50 in the Droughtlands armor it is not amazing. 3/5

    Improved Internalize Charge: Increase Internalize Charge's bonus damage by 3/6/9/12/15%. Useless, or very nearly useless. I almost never ever used Internalize Charge because Withering Flames is so much better. Even if you do use Internalize, 5 talent points for a situational 15% damage bonus is a waste. 0/5

    Burning Bonds: Root with a short cast timer. Absolutely a must-have for any Pyro. 5/5

    Improved Burning Bonds: Reduces cast time of Burning Bonds by 50/100%. Another must-have, to make BB instant. 5/5

    Tier 3
    Fiery Resolve: Reduces the time you are affected by stuns/silences by 10/20/30%. Completely unnecessary for PvE, likely of moderate usefulness in PvP. I never took it while levelling and I never missed it. Most stuns and silences only last for ~5 seconds, and you have better spots for your talents than a 1.5s reduction. May be different in PvP, but hard to tell. 1/5 for PvE.

    Cinder Burst: High-damage, long-cast spell. Poor choice to begin with, much more useful later on once spellpower ramps up and you get access to Pyromancer's Armor. In the late game is a fantastic opener and (with Pyromancer's Armor) a useful proc. 4/5 (endgame)

    Improved Grounding: Increases mana regen by 2/4/6 per second while on a ground power. Useless. 6 mana per second is quite low when you get access to the ability, and becomes steadily worse the higher up you go. The last rank of fireball costs 154 mana, which means you are getting an extra fireball's worth of mana roughly every 25-26 seconds that you stand in a ground effect. You will not notice the difference in 99% of fights, and I doubt it will help much even in endurance fights. 0/5

    Tier 4
    Improved Flame Bolt: Flame Bolt has a 33/66/100% chance of increasing fire damage by 10% for 10 seconds. Good ability, as the Pyromancer stacks a lot of +% modifiers to fire damage and this helps. Also a prerequisite for for the excellent Wildfire ability in Tier 5. 4/5

    Burning Bright: 8/16/24% bonus fire damage at the cost of 5/10/15% less max health. Definitely worthwhile in PvE. Most fights as a Pyro will never make it to you to do damage, so your max health is irrelevant in about 90% of fights. This group of talents is one of the main reasons that melee fights never make it to you. 5/5

    Fire Storm: Channelled, ranged AoE spell. I really wanted to like this spell, but every time I used it I nearly died, or did die. It does not do enough damage to kill most normal enemies outright, and you are basically CC'ing yourself by casting it. I suspect it comes into its own in a group situation with a tank that can hold AoE aggro. Everywhere else you are far better off focusing your damage onto single targets. 2/5 solo/levelling, likely higher in group content.

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    Tier 5
    Wildfire: Your fireball has a 10/20/30% chance to make the next 3 Flame Bolts have no cooldown. Amazing ability, and because it refreshes the cooldown and gives you 3 bolts without any cooldown afterwards, actually equals 4 bolts as fast as the GCD cools down. Great for burst damage on a target. 5/5

    Pyromancer's Armor: 10% chance for your fire spells to make your next Cinder Burst cast instantly. The best armor available to Pyro's. Cinder Burst at level 50 hits mobs for about 650-800 non-crit, and crits up to 1700. I do wish this armor refreshed the cooldown on Cinder Burst though, as often it will go off and CB is in its 30-second cooldown. Still, 4/5

    Unbreakable Bonds: Your Burning Bonds no longer break on damage. Fantastic ability, allows you to root and hammer on any melee target. 5/5

    Tier 6
    Fire Shield: 30% chance on hit to spawn a shield for 15% of your max health with a cooldown of 30 seconds. Moderately useful talent. Does not provide significant protection since your health as a Pyro is so low. Will increase in usefulness as endurance gear improves, or with buffs. For me it most often ate a single hit a fight, or a hostile DoT. 3/5

    Improved Ground of Power: 10% less damage taken, 5% damage bonus while standing on Ground of Power. Worthwhile talent as Pyro's will use Ground of Power a LOT. 3/5

    Backdraft: Targetted AoE 3-second stun. Not useful in solo PvE except as an escape mechanic. Might be alright in group PvE, possibly decent in PvP. However, you need to take the lackluster Fire Storm to get it. 2/5 for levelling, likely to be higher for PvP CC since it's an AoE instant-cast stun.

    Tier 7
    Living Flame: Resets Fire spell cooldowns, reduces their cast time by 50%, 20 second duration. Great for hammering on a target. Can refresh the durations of several useful spells. Definitely worth a single talent point. 5/5

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    Spells will be written with the # of points to unlock them first.

    Spells:
    (0) Fireball: Good single-target dps spell, not great. Would be nice to see slightly higher base damage on it (+10% or so), and at some gear points it feels really expensive mana-wise. Still, in later levels gear outstrips the rising cost and it is the spell you will probably cast most often. 4/5

    (0) Flame Bolt: Great instant-cast spell. Good damage, moderate cooldown, low mana cost. Use it every time it's up. 5/5

    (2) Flame Jet: Mediocre AoE instant. Damage is low, range is short (feels like melee range), cost is high. I only ever really used it when I needed another instant-cast spell, regardless of the # of targets. 2/5

    (4) Fire Armor: Lousy armor spell. 3% bonus to damage is nearly unnoticeable at any level. Pyromancer's armor is much better as soon as it is available. 0/5

    (6) Internalize Charge: Chews through charge so quickly it's unlikely you'll get more than a few spells off even with a full bar. Putting points into Warlock to increase the charge your spells generate can help this, but it's still not great. Withering Flames is without a doubt a better use of your charge. 2/5

    (8) Ground of Power: Great ground spell, the bread and butter buff of the Pyro. You will cast this over and over. The damage increase is noticeable, and the talents to reduce the extra damage taken really help this spell shine. Only gripe is the small size of the circle, but even that can be worked around. 4/5

    (10) Burning Intellect: Solid Intelligence buff, you'll have it running all the time. Nothing game-changing, but the extra mana and damage are definitely helpful. Other casters will love you. 4/5

    (12) Countdown: Single target DD on a timer. Easy to overlook. Does about the damage of two fireballs for 66% of the mana, but the timer is annoying. You don't want to open with this because you would rather fire off two fireballs at range as opposed to grabbing aggro and waiting for the global cooldown to reset. However, once you have started a fight it doesn't often last 8 seconds (yes really). Frequently all I was doing was blowing a GCD so I could put on a debuff that never had time to go off, and eventually I just stopped using it altogether. Would like to see the damage increased and/or the timer shortened. 1/5

    (14) Flicker: Teleports you ahead in the direction you are facing. Useful for escapes, probably more essential in PvP than PvE. Does not free you from snares, just immobilizing effects. 2/5 for PvE, likely more useful in PvP.

    (16) Ground of Control: 30% chance to stun for 2 seconds. I basically never used this in PvE simply because Ground of Power is so amazing. Totally outclassed by Ground of Power in PvE, maybe useful in PvP but I doubt any of the ground powers are really amazing since they force you to stand in one spot, and take time to cast. 1/5 PvE, unknown PvP

    (18) Flashfire: Nice CC, only Pyro CC that shuts down enemy casters. Stuns you for 3 seconds, so not recommended while engaging multiple targets. Still, 4/5 if only for the usefulness of a ranged spellcasting interrupt.

    (20) Burn: Fantastic anti-melee CC. Shutting down melee for 8 seconds is great. 5/5

    (26) Withering Flames: The be-all and end-all of Pyromancy. In my opinion the best use of charge in the game, with the possible exception of the warlock life drain (and even that's questionable). I actually expect this to get nerfed since it is so overwhelmingly powerful. Using this I was able to solo my way through all the group quests except the last two fights of the cyclops arena in Droughtlands. 6 out of 5 points, it breaks the scale it is so great.

    (32) Lockdown: Ranged AoE 90% snare. Of only moderate usefulness in PvE because Pyro AoE abilities are not sufficient to kill most monsters in the time provided, and AoE as a rule is very mana-intensive for the Pyro. Still, it has uses as an escape mechanism, and I suspect it is very useful in PvP. 2/5 for PvE, likely higher for PvP.

    Here is where most Pyro's will stop in the tree I imagine, because after 35 points or so you start having to invest in mediocre abilities to unlock mediocre spells. Ability points are better spent in a second tree IMO.

    (38) Inferno: Decent instant nuke, but the requirement that the target be under 20% health makes it less useful because Pyro's tend to shave off health in such large chunks that it is easy to kill a target with another type of spell. Would be more useful in extended fights if the damage was higher. Requires an investment of too many points to justify just for an instant nuke. 2/5 with a point deducted for being so deep in the tree.

    (44) Ground of Strength: Immunity to CC and less damage seems great, but aside from being potentially useful in some boss fights, I can't think of a great use for this. I do not expect ground powers to be fantastic in PvP simply because they limit your mobility so much and have a cast time attached. Also requires a tremendous amount of investment in one tree. 1/5 for being extremely situational and very deep in the tree.

    (51) Mass Burn: Sounds good, probably is good in PvP and handy in group PvE. In solo PvE it's not useful because of Pyro's AoE limitations. I can see this being a huge hassle to deal with in PvP. However, going full-on Pyromancer is an awful decision for anyone to make. I simply cannot recommend this to anyone under any circumstances with the tree as it is. 0/5 because the prerequisite is a tremendous amount of sacrifice due to lost potential. The ability itself probably scores a 2/5 for solo PvE and higher in group and PvP situations. If it was up to me, I'd swap the position of this and Inferno on the "roots", and boost Inferno a lot to become a class-defining single target DD spell.

  20. #20
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    Synergy with other souls (just the ones I tried):

    Warlock: Good synergy as far as the abilities go, but a lot of the warlock abilities are damage over time, which means they don't mesh well with the instant gratification and short fights that a pyro-heavy build results in. However, the health buffing and draining spells of the warlock go a decent way towards combating the frailty of the pyro.

    Elementalist: Great synergy with Pyromancer, and the soul I duo'ed with the most. The pet is great for as long as it stays current. The crit/crit damage abilities are awesome for boosting the instant dps of the Pyro, and the ice shield spell can be a life-saver and makes fighting spellcasters a lot easier on the health pool.

    Dominator: As soon as I unlocked a 3rd soul this was it, and that was around the time the Dominator soul was available. I put no points into the Dominator, but having Transmogrify helped a lot with multiple pulls since I could almost always burn down 1 or 2 mobs before the Trans popped.

    Chloromancer: Decent, but there are better souls available. I rarely ran out of health before mana as a Pyro, so I felt that the healing abilities of the Chloromancer were unnecessary and went with Dom/Ele or Dom/Lock instead.


    Final Pyromancer Impressions:

    The probable reason that feedback on the Pyro was slow in coming is because it's very much the archetypal glass cannon. I think people play this class and think , "Oh, a typical wizard/mage". I thoroughly enjoyed playing a Pyromancer because that high damage/high risk playstyle suits me quite well. The pyromancer is a slow starter in my opinion. It really starts to take off as you get your spellpower bonus to 80% or so, and get the deeper-tree +% damage abilities on top of that. By 45 or so I was able to take most monsters within 2 levels of myself and kill them before they could land more than one or two hits without using any CC. If I did use CC they rarely landed a shot unless they were spellcasters, and my ice shield would eat the damage.

    The Pyromancer is amazing at single target DPS in any situation, especially with Withering Flames. I would like to see more damage on the Fireball spell since it is our baseline ability and it feels mana-intensive for the damage returned, but basically all the rest of our abilities feel about right. The only concern I have is that the +crit abilities from the Pyro and Ele trees may not be working, but I'll have to do some casting tests to see if my crit rate is in line with the supposed % or not.

    In AoE, the Pyromancer really needs a tank that can hold the aggro off of them. They are far to fragile to regularly attempt AoE spells solo, but I imagine that Fire Storm would be useful in a group setting. The Burning Ground spell from the Elementalist tree would also supplement AoE quite nicely and I assume would benefit from all the +fire damage that the Pyro tree unlocks.

    The PvE experience with the Pyromancer was a ton of fun. There are only a few instances where I felt the game was beating me up. To me the Pyromancer played the way I want a mage to play: very high damage, and the amount of risk varied with your ability to manage and use cooldowns. If I played things right and had some luck with procs I was able to take on 3-packs my level and have them all dead in about 30 seconds. If I screwed up I died horribly to one monster and its minion. Good job with a class that feels right, at least for me.

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