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Thread: Warrior tanking concerns and issues

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  1. #1
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    Warrior tanking concerns and issues

    Hello ladies and gentlemen, I have been taking notes for the last few weeks on the various tanking concerns and now I am coming to you, the fans, who have put their hearts and souls into so much feedback for a bit more assistance. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to post to this thread a brief description of the problem you are having as a Warrior tank, the Boss or mob, or types of mobs that are giving you the difficulty, and what your build is. My goal is to hunt these problems down like the villainous curs they are and end their miserable existence, but to do so I need your help in tracking them down where they have gone to ground.

    So please use the following format and let's get this handled and make Warriors the awesome tanks they need to be.

    <Brief description of the issue, this can really be any length, but the more brief it is, the easier it will be to get to the bottom of the problem.>

    <Boss, mob, or NPC name>

    <Breakdown of build...
    Paladin - 31
    Stalwart Shield - 5
    Enduring Stamina - 5
    Martial Shield - 1
    Hardened Will - 3
    Aggressive Guardian - 2
    Graceful Under Pressure - 3
    vengeful Wrath - 3
    Balance3 of Power - 3
    Karmic Resolution - 2
    Tip the balance - 2
    Shield of the Chosen - 1
    Paladin's Reprisal - 1

    Reaver - 10
    Strong Constitution - 5
    Plague Bringer - 1
    Ethereal Bond - 3
    Soul Feast - 1>

    Thank you all for your continued feedback and assistance.

  2. #2
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    wow,

    I remember the first time I logged into EQ and I had an issue getting stuck, the game was pretty new and I was brand new to MMO's but my ticket was answered so fast I was amazed at the level of customer service.

    I haven't had that feeling in a long, long time in any game, until this game.

    You guys are really bringing back the service in customer service and I just want to thank you. Glad I'm pre-ordered and 6 months paid..

  3. #3
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    Before I post my feedback, generally its not "one mob" that gives the problem, its the overall mechanic of how damage is being distributed and what defenses we have for those damages. Unless you want a mob and the name of the attack as an example.
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
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    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


  4. #4
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    With this previous patch. Can I just say give us more damage reduction to all forms of damage and be done?
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
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    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raive View Post
    With this previous patch. Can I just say give us more damage reduction to all forms of damage and be done?
    It's not an agro problem, or at least, I rarely seem to have agro problems. My problem always seems to be mitigating the damage I'm taking.

    So I have to agree with this. It's not encounter specific. It's overall, ongoing, persistent.

  6. #6
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    Basically - you take the warrior - spec 3 specific tanking souls and pull all the mitigation you can possibly pull out of every single combination you can come up with...

    And a SINGLE rogue soul still mitigates damage better.

    That's the problem.

  7. #7
    So for this particular line of feedback comparing the Riftstalker isn't relevant. We know Riftstalkers have some issues and we're taking measures to improve that disparity.

    That being said this is about WARRIOR tanks and the builds you are using and the encounters you are having difficulty with. In general we have ran every encounter using warrior tank builds and compelted them successfully. We've even done it copying some of the Alpha players and using them in our test runs as well to make sure we don't have an unfair advantage.

    That being said there are ALOT of combinations of builds out there, and alot of diffrent encounters, and many of you have tried many diffrent things. This is the type of targeted feedback we need as we continue to tune the Warrior tanks, not blanket complaints with no data we can test against.

    So please, help us improve RIFT through drilling down to details and specifics so we can shore up our loose ends.

    -Adam
    Adam Gershowitz
    Producer
    Rift Planes of Telara
    www.riftgame.com

  8. #8
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    Warrior issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Gersh_Trion View Post
    So for this particular line of feedback comparing the Riftstalker isn't relevant. We know Riftstalkers have some issues and we're taking measures to improve that disparity.

    That being said this is about WARRIOR tanks and the builds you are using and the encounters you are having difficulty with. In general we have ran every encounter using warrior tank builds and compelted them successfully. We've even done it copying some of the Alpha players and using them in our test runs as well to make sure we don't have an unfair advantage.

    That being said there are ALOT of combinations of builds out there, and alot of diffrent encounters, and many of you have tried many diffrent things. This is the type of targeted feedback we need as we continue to tune the Warrior tanks, not blanket complaints with no data we can test against.

    So please, help us improve RIFT through drilling down to details and specifics so we can shore up our loose ends.

    -Adam
    being able to defeat a encounter with any random build does not mean there is not something massively wrong with warrior tanking. other classes I.E. cleric / rogue use 1 soul to tank better than warriors using 3 souls.
    what needs to be done is make it so each warrior tanking soul can tank stand alone as good as other classes tanking souls then so if we combine all 3 tanking souls we will have a great tank we do not need to be the top DPs just give us the ability to mitigate damage (all forms) and generate massive threat i could really care less if i do 100 DPS but give me the tools to be the best tank because i am using 3 full tanking souls and all my points spent to tank not were a rogue or cleric all they have to do is spend 18 pt and bam instant tank that is = or better than a warrior with 61pt spent

    Gorofex 50 warrior
    Bloodpact

  9. #9
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    Weaponshield to add more tanking flavors....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dravid View Post
    Weaponshield to add more tanking flavors....
    You go die sir
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
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    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raive View Post
    You go die sir
    Dying is easy enough. But that would invalidate the purpose of this thread. :P

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dravid View Post
    Weaponshield to add more tanking flavors....
    Do not see this being a problem since the Vidicator soul has Block if you are dual wielding. But it is to far up the tree and in the vindicator soul to be of any use to a tank build.

  13. #13
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    The prior comment from Xaices reflects part of the main issue I see ... why is a "weaponshield" in vindicator too far up the tree ...(and I'm not home, so I can't look at specifics).

    There needs to be one central tank soul to invest in for the core tank abilities. Extra mitigation, elemental resists, enhanced defenses in general to make a solid tank, then the other souls adjusted around it for specific nuances ... such as 2 weapon tanking, sword/board, two handed, etc, and those souls provide the specific abilities for weapon preferences.

    I don't have a problem allowing a weapon-based block for dual wielders if they spec for it in a branch ability. But it should be innate for sword/shield. However, both souls should have a branch choice to improve block rates, and a block should mean 100% mitigation, same as parry with 2h'rs.

    One central primary tanking soul, and then adjust the others around it for player creativity in HOW they want to play/tank would greatly simplify the current problem with lots of vagueness and overlap in warrior tank design and function.

  14. #14
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    To be blunt, the best MMO warrior I've ever played was an Ironbreaker in Warhammer.

    RIFT just does not capture the feel or the "essence" of a warrior to me. I tried one for a while, then switched over to a Riftstalker, and I've been happy as a riftstalker tank ever since.

    But, I'll be the first to admit - that's mostly because I enjoy tanking, and I would dearly love it if the Warrior archetype souls could do something to emulate that.


    If I could offer a suggestion, I think the first thing I would recommend to Trion is to decide which soul you want as a primary tank soul, and go from there. Part of the problem I see is it's too vague across the warrior soul options, with the Void Knight adding a bit of anti-caster tanking, and this one adding a bit of that, and this one adding a bit of flair for something else. ...

    You guys should play spin-the-wheel or something, and whichever soul it lands on, make that one the central tanking soul and then stick with it, with the other options available to add some flair or fill a niche, but have at least one TANK soul in your TANK archetype ... not a hodge-podge of "tankish" souls with none of them truly filling that spot.

    With the Justicar and Riftstalker - folks have 1 choice, and they make it, but also, from a development standpoint, there's one soul that's intended for tanking, so the abilities are conveniently there in the tree to make a character with that option effective.

    Whichever soul you choose to make a tank, then make it a REAL - viable tank.

    I think a plate-armored tank-specced tank in RIFT could stand for a Tier 1 branch ability of 3/6/9/12/15% damage absorb right out the gate, this would be over and above anything already in place, and wouldn't matter what sort of damage it was. Then within the tree have other abilities for parry/block enhancement. And frankly I would like to see parry/block means the warrior takes no damage from that attack. If you parry a sword strike, then it doesn't hit you. Changing Block/Parry to do no damage on a successful mitigation roll, and increasing warrior's absorb via a tank soul branch option would go a LONG way towards tuning them and making them feel more like a decent tank. Then leave it so players can choose to increase their block/parry via branch selections as desired.

    I would also like to see within the tank spec an ability to set a guard or intercept on another party member. Guard would be the warrior diverts all agro (threat) from a guarded player to himself, and intercept would be the warrior can take attacks meant for the player being intercepted -- provided the warrior has a shield and the player is within 2m of the warrior.

    Overall, a high-end warrior tank should be HIGHLY surviveable - at the cost of DPS, sure, but highly surviveable to feel like a tank.

    -----

    Personally, I would still like to see paladins get a root ability for a single target heal that's not on a long cool-down timer. They can raise the dead at will, but they can't reliably heal a couple paper-cuts. A 2s castable, single-target heal that does about 65% of an equal range cleric heal would be good. Or even an instant-cast single-target heal over time. As it stands now, the cooldowns on paladin heals make them essentially novelties (with the exception of saving them for specific boss-fights or "oh *(&@" moments I guess).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
    You guys should play spin-the-wheel or something, and whichever soul it lands on, make that one the central tanking soul and then stick with it, with the other options available to add some flair or fill a niche, but have at least one TANK soul in your TANK archetype ... not a hodge-podge of "tankish" souls with none of them truly filling that spot.
    100% agreed. As a healer, I have noticed exactly how poor warriors are right now, and had that reaffirmed a million times. I don't think Rogues and Healers should be more viable tanks than Warriors, which is currently the case. (At least the prior)

    Decide on ONE soul that should be FULLY viable as a tank. I think the Reaver would be best as it's already the one to hold aggro best.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    100% agreed. As a healer, I have noticed exactly how poor warriors are right now, and had that reaffirmed a million times. I don't think Rogues and Healers should be more viable tanks than Warriors, which is currently the case. (At least the prior)

    Decide on ONE soul that should be FULLY viable as a tank. I think the Reaver would be best as it's already the one to hold aggro best.
    Paladin would be best to be honest as they have the better survivability tools. Then you can branch off to get other tools. But really, there is at most 3 tank roles to build, and pretty much all of them have Paladin. Pal/Reav/War, Pal/Reav/VK, Pal/VK/War. I say VK only once they fix the issues with the elemental damage not being mitigated like it should.

  17. #17
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    Reaver is the exact opposite of what a viable tank should be lol. When vk gets fixed, it would be too hard to keep it out of a build and basically it will come down to vk/pal/ insert warlord/reaver
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
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    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


  18. #18
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    I think the main issue is the abundance of actual magic based attacks from named mobs which makes needing magic damage reduction needed. Even on melee mobs it seems they have magical based melee attacks. We need more variety in that field to make other builds viable.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    100% agreed. As a healer, I have noticed exactly how poor warriors are right now, and had that reaffirmed a million times. I don't think Rogues and Healers should be more viable tanks than Warriors, which is currently the case. (At least the prior)

    Decide on ONE soul that should be FULLY viable as a tank. I think the Reaver would be best as it's already the one to hold aggro best.
    Looks like somebody hasn't played in a month or so...

  20. #20
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    I never knew healers were viable xpert tanks. I Mustve missed something there
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
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    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


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