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Thread: Warrior tanking concerns and issues

  1. #41
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    Thank you Xaices and thank you Cicero.

  2. #42
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    I will posting when I get home a list of the abilities that should be allowed by tanks by you guys for some reason put them deep in offensive trees.
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  3. #43
    Question: Why is the "Gust" air damage ability blockable but "lightening strike" or "jolt" not blockable? Air Mobs

    Since the mechanic is obviously there to block elemental damage, could it be feasable to be able to be given the chance to block all elemental attacks?

    Update: Deepfreeze's Breaker hits Xaices for 91 water damage (38 Blocked). Lesser mob from one of the dailys with the same ability. Though I am blocking this one for some reason. Was there a ninja patch to block elemental damage?

    Edit: here is an interesting ability "Dusk till Dawn" Purple Stream from Casters hand locks opponent in place, player can not move can not attack and simply takes Death Damage the duration of the ability.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
    I'm on my phone running errands in town, so I don't have access to my PC for my spec. But last night we had a group of 45s in Lantern Hook with me on my 45 rogue and a warrior tank on his 45 also. I do not know his spec either, Gargog was name.

    For the final fire boss, Gargog was ineffective tanking it at all, and would be dead in about 1 to 3 seconds after engaging, every time, with 2 healers spam healing him. This is prior to any crystal being summoned.

    On Cicc, I have riftstalker, bard, nightblade, and I know I have the nightblade 2/2 for the fire death resist, also I have both cooldowns - the 50% one and the 80% one in nightblade.

    As a warrior, on repeated tries Gargog was simply flattened. I will try to get him to board to post his spec.

    On my rogue, I was able to tank the mob continually with the support healers, and survive to consistently be the last man standing on numerous other tries.

    Now, Gargog mentioned he was still learning and had not tanked much. I don't know if, or how much difference that makes.

    I can confirm though, that of 2 lvl 45s, both in tank specs, the warrior was getting creamed immediately by the fire boss, and my rogue was standing till the end. Consistently.

    I know he was paladin/warlord. Not sure of rest.
    Paladin - 38
    Warlord - 22

    Paladin Tree
    Stalwart Shield 5/5
    Defender 5/5
    Shield of the Hero 1/1
    Enduring Stamina 5/5
    Light's Hammer 1/1
    Aggressive Guardian 2/2
    Hardened Will 3/3
    Paladin's Devotion 1/1
    Vengeful Wrath 2/2
    Reverent Protection 1/1
    Balance of Power 3/3
    Karmic Resolution 2/2
    Improved Reverent Protection 1/1
    Tip the Balance 2/2
    Improved Paladin's Devotion 1/2
    Shield of the Chosen 1/1
    Paladin's Reprisal 1/1

    What I don't have and why:
    Small Arms Specialization - No need because I carry a Shield
    Steely Resolve - I have a stun release, never had a problem to need this.
    Martial Shield - Just don't feel a need for this one
    Graceful Under Pressure - don't have a problem missing my targets

    Warlord Tree
    Powerful Countenance 5/5
    Intimidating 5/5
    Defensive Experience 5/5
    That which does not Kill me 3/5
    Call to Focus Fire 1/1
    Imposing 1/1
    Figurehead 2/3

    I 'think' these were my stats at the time of the boss. I may have changed a piece of gear or two, but it will be fairly close to this. This is with MY buffs only, not with the group's. With the group buffs, I had about 5200 HP.

    Health 4892
    Dexterity 149
    Armor 5550
    Strength 220
    Endurance 297
    Life Resist 4
    Earth Resist 8
    Air Resist 20
    Attack Power 210
    Physical Crit 166
    Dodge 162
    Parry 227
    Block 260

    I'll preface this by saying this is my first tank in an MMO so I'm not 100% familiar with the class but I do know we need some adjustments.

    During that final stage in Lantern Hook, the fire boss could hit me for 2100 back to back. On one occasion he hit me for over 5k with a single hit. I don't remember the exact attack he was using, but it was elemental and it burned ) I think there was only one time I was able to stay alive for longer than 10 seconds during the boss fight. The rest of the time, he would drop me with just a couple hits. It could be the gear, my build or lack of skill, but I was dropping fast with the healers focused on me.

    I hope this provides some useful information.

  5. #45
    I have 3 builds that i swap around in based on the situation
    My melee aoe tank build is 32 paladin 17 warlord 17 Voidknight
    32 pal for lights decree and paladin's reprisal (have to use alot of filler points on stuff i dont really need just to get to here)
    17 warlord for the group support be it call to arms or call to focus fire
    17 Voidknight for thehp/str buff thru pacts and spell sunder and spellbreaker(nerfed to bad so i might remove)
    With this build i have ample aoe threat the ability to give group a few bonus but lack alot of magic reduction

    32 paladin 26 Voidknight 8 reaver
    This build is aoe with a good amount of magic reduction
    32 pally for the aoe and defensive stuff
    26 reaver have all the stuff as the previous build but i add into improved void and riftshield(this ability needs to be a little stronger and i dont me make it longer duration)
    8 reaver for the 5 in the hp boost and levtover 3 into the damage reduction

    32warlord 24 paladin 10 reaver
    This is my heavy support /singletarget build
    32 warlord up to rallying call and locked down with hit reduction on the ability has all the call increases but not the regen/increased healing
    24 paladin for survivability and agro /spell reduction

    10 reaver for the 5 in hp increase and 5 in damage reduction

    as far as i have tested these seem to be the most solid for the way i play.The biggest problem i can see in any of these builds is like everyone else is saying the mitigation of NON PHYSICAL damage types
    As far as i can see the physical end of warrior is either on par or close to par what a plate tank should be.
    I wish the devs would add identity to the 3 tanking souls right now warlord has a nice idenity but needs some tuning to be more then a squishy tank type. The paladin needs that thing that says "YOU CANT KILL ME EASILY" and the voidknight is in such bad shap that i dont know where you were going with it..it has no early silence for a tank that supposed to be caster unfriendly it also doesnt even have a normal interrupt early on..44 points in is way to late. This tank type should also be a bit stronger against all forms of magic attacks. You have supposidly fixed the crit thing with the new stat so will test that when i get the stat if ever. Anyway just so input so do with it what you will

  6. #46
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    Playing with several builds placed here I think part of the problem is certain mobs using certain abilities that are not working as we intend them. Taking a look at that as well. Thank you for the continued feedback.

  7. #47
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    Paraphrased: "Wow that thing hits hard."

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    Xaices, you said the following "What I was trying to point out is that when I can take 2 successive elemental blows and go from full to nill health ". Could you let me know which boss or mob you were facing when this happened. I would like to run internal tests against this mob using your builds to see what the issue might specifically be.
    One good example for mob using elemental attacks that we have only 5% mitigation (reaver soul, 5% reduction to all dam)against is none less than Lord Greenscale and his breath attack that does about 4* 2,4k- 2,6k life damage during 4s. Ok, it dont kill well geared tank, I had about 12,5k hp tanking that mob, but its extremely bad system that NONE of soul choices or gear stats except health/endurance matter for this kinda fight. Tank stats are (beside hp) AC, block, parry, dodge and physical mitigation (max. 10% besides AC)/magical mitigation (max 38%) from soul choices. We just must have something ag. elemental dam too, easy choice is to make magic mitigation work ag. that too.

    ps. I did run fight few times in VK build with 20% more magic mitigation to make sure magic mitigation or VK's Rift Shield don't help.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    Playing with several builds placed here I think part of the problem is certain mobs using certain abilities that are not working as we intend them. Taking a look at that as well. Thank you for the continued feedback.
    Does this mean magical mitigation *should* affect elemental damage (or better said all non-physical damage)? I would really like to hear offical answer is there supposed to be damage that is not affected by physical mitigation (mainly armor) OR magical mitigation but is affected by all damage reduction (which rogues still have plenty and warriors have 5% at very best.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
    Does this mean magical mitigation *should* affect elemental damage (or better said all non-physical damage)? I would really like to hear offical answer is there supposed to be damage that is not affected by physical mitigation (mainly armor) OR magical mitigation but is affected by all damage reduction (which rogues still have plenty and warriors have 5% at very best.
    Void Knight Void and Devour should in fact mitigate elemental damage. The fact that it does not is a bug that has been fixed and should be in soon. That along with several bosses with elemental attacks that were doing more than we intended has also been resolved and should be in soon as well. Please keep your eyes open for those changes and keep up the feedback. Thank you.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    Void Knight Void and Devour should in fact mitigate elemental damage. The fact that it does not is a bug that has been fixed and should be in soon. That along with several bosses with elemental attacks that were doing more than we intended has also been resolved and should be in soon as well. Please keep your eyes open for those changes and keep up the feedback. Thank you.
    <3

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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    Void Knight Void and Devour should in fact mitigate elemental damage. The fact that it does not is a bug that has been fixed and should be in soon. That along with several bosses with elemental attacks that were doing more than we intended has also been resolved and should be in soon as well. Please keep your eyes open for those changes and keep up the feedback. Thank you.
    Following up on this, will this also apply Paladin's Hardened Will and the Reaver's spell damage talent? Will the Void Knight Rift Shield follow the same rules as such abilities as Expert AP's final boss Calyx Frost Wraith and Hydro Blast abilities BOTH hit through Rift Shield.

    ***ALSO***

    This concerns the Void Knight in particular but alot of people including myself find that its rather underwhelming that we have to do a whole soul for only a mere 20% mitigation to spell damage and having to go so high to achieve that. I honestly believe that combining both Pain Tolerance and Improved Pain Tolerance and moving Devourer into Improved Pain Tolerance's previous location would do world's of good of making the Void Knight a much more accessible tree. The Void Knight starts off way too offensive to be considered a defensive tank soul. Also if you could revert the nerf you guys did a few months back of Devourer to 5-7% per point instead of 3 would be great, 20% is so underwhelming as to 30%-40% sounds a bit more in the right direction for the self-titled "Anti-Mage" tank soul wouldn't you agree?
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    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


  13. #53
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    For some raid mobs that the void knight fails to do anything on:

    Lord Greenscale: Noxious Breath (Rift Shield nor Magical Defense helps when it should)
    Duke L: His Devious Faire adds ability "Fairy Barrage", goes un-mitigated
    Prince Hylas: Spirit Fracture and the ground aes.
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
    -Conqueror-
    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
    You guys should play spin-the-wheel or something, and whichever soul it lands on, make that one the central tanking soul and then stick with it, with the other options available to add some flair or fill a niche, but have at least one TANK soul in your TANK archetype ... not a hodge-podge of "tankish" souls with none of them truly filling that spot.
    100% agreed. As a healer, I have noticed exactly how poor warriors are right now, and had that reaffirmed a million times. I don't think Rogues and Healers should be more viable tanks than Warriors, which is currently the case. (At least the prior)

    Decide on ONE soul that should be FULLY viable as a tank. I think the Reaver would be best as it's already the one to hold aggro best.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    100% agreed. As a healer, I have noticed exactly how poor warriors are right now, and had that reaffirmed a million times. I don't think Rogues and Healers should be more viable tanks than Warriors, which is currently the case. (At least the prior)

    Decide on ONE soul that should be FULLY viable as a tank. I think the Reaver would be best as it's already the one to hold aggro best.
    Paladin would be best to be honest as they have the better survivability tools. Then you can branch off to get other tools. But really, there is at most 3 tank roles to build, and pretty much all of them have Paladin. Pal/Reav/War, Pal/Reav/VK, Pal/VK/War. I say VK only once they fix the issues with the elemental damage not being mitigated like it should.

  16. #56
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    Reaver is the exact opposite of what a viable tank should be lol. When vk gets fixed, it would be too hard to keep it out of a build and basically it will come down to vk/pal/ insert warlord/reaver
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
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  17. #57
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    I think the main issue is the abundance of actual magic based attacks from named mobs which makes needing magic damage reduction needed. Even on melee mobs it seems they have magical based melee attacks. We need more variety in that field to make other builds viable.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Githil View Post
    I think the main issue is the abundance of actual magic based attacks from named mobs which makes needing magic damage reduction needed. Even on melee mobs it seems they have magical based melee attacks. We need more variety in that field to make other builds viable.
    I just wish in addition to the changes they're making, that block works better against magic attacks as well as physical attacks. Since tanks use a shield it should be multi dimensional in its defense.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyform View Post
    I just wish in addition to the changes they're making that block worked against magic attacks as well as physical attacks. Since tanks use a shield it should be multi dimensional in its defense.
    you haven't seen block work against spell damage? I see it all the time.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Githil View Post
    you haven't seen block work against spell damage? I see it all the time.
    I guess I should have phrased it as "works better" taking a 7500 HP fire damge hit when you only have 6800 HP I would say whatever it's blocking. It ain't enough.

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