+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 86

Thread: Warrior tanking concerns and issues

  1. #1
    Rift Team
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    186

    Warrior tanking concerns and issues

    Hello ladies and gentlemen, I have been taking notes for the last few weeks on the various tanking concerns and now I am coming to you, the fans, who have put their hearts and souls into so much feedback for a bit more assistance. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to post to this thread a brief description of the problem you are having as a Warrior tank, the Boss or mob, or types of mobs that are giving you the difficulty, and what your build is. My goal is to hunt these problems down like the villainous curs they are and end their miserable existence, but to do so I need your help in tracking them down where they have gone to ground.

    So please use the following format and let's get this handled and make Warriors the awesome tanks they need to be.

    <Brief description of the issue, this can really be any length, but the more brief it is, the easier it will be to get to the bottom of the problem.>

    <Boss, mob, or NPC name>

    <Breakdown of build...
    Paladin - 31
    Stalwart Shield - 5
    Enduring Stamina - 5
    Martial Shield - 1
    Hardened Will - 3
    Aggressive Guardian - 2
    Graceful Under Pressure - 3
    vengeful Wrath - 3
    Balance3 of Power - 3
    Karmic Resolution - 2
    Tip the balance - 2
    Shield of the Chosen - 1
    Paladin's Reprisal - 1

    Reaver - 10
    Strong Constitution - 5
    Plague Bringer - 1
    Ethereal Bond - 3
    Soul Feast - 1>

    Thank you all for your continued feedback and assistance.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    218
    wow,

    I remember the first time I logged into EQ and I had an issue getting stuck, the game was pretty new and I was brand new to MMO's but my ticket was answered so fast I was amazed at the level of customer service.

    I haven't had that feeling in a long, long time in any game, until this game.

    You guys are really bringing back the service in customer service and I just want to thank you. Glad I'm pre-ordered and 6 months paid..

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    604
    Before I post my feedback, generally its not "one mob" that gives the problem, its the overall mechanic of how damage is being distributed and what defenses we have for those damages. Unless you want a mob and the name of the attack as an example.
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
    -Conqueror-
    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    604
    With this previous patch. Can I just say give us more damage reduction to all forms of damage and be done?
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
    -Conqueror-
    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    387
    Quote Originally Posted by Raive View Post
    Before I post my feedback, generally its not "one mob" that gives the problem, its the overall mechanic of how damage is being distributed and what defenses we have for those damages. Unless you want a mob and the name of the attack as an example.
    I agree with this. The problem is armor value not mitigating enough, and magic damage reduction is sparse for warrior tanks where as the riftstalker is all about straight damage reduction(doesn't matter if it is physical or magical).

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Raive View Post
    With this previous patch. Can I just say give us more damage reduction to all forms of damage and be done?
    It's not an agro problem, or at least, I rarely seem to have agro problems. My problem always seems to be mitigating the damage I'm taking.

    So I have to agree with this. It's not encounter specific. It's overall, ongoing, persistent.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    175
    Basically - you take the warrior - spec 3 specific tanking souls and pull all the mitigation you can possibly pull out of every single combination you can come up with...

    And a SINGLE rogue soul still mitigates damage better.

    That's the problem.

  8. #8
    So for this particular line of feedback comparing the Riftstalker isn't relevant. We know Riftstalkers have some issues and we're taking measures to improve that disparity.

    That being said this is about WARRIOR tanks and the builds you are using and the encounters you are having difficulty with. In general we have ran every encounter using warrior tank builds and compelted them successfully. We've even done it copying some of the Alpha players and using them in our test runs as well to make sure we don't have an unfair advantage.

    That being said there are ALOT of combinations of builds out there, and alot of diffrent encounters, and many of you have tried many diffrent things. This is the type of targeted feedback we need as we continue to tune the Warrior tanks, not blanket complaints with no data we can test against.

    So please, help us improve RIFT through drilling down to details and specifics so we can shore up our loose ends.

    -Adam
    Adam Gershowitz
    Producer
    Rift Planes of Telara
    www.riftgame.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    213
    To be blunt, the best MMO warrior I've ever played was an Ironbreaker in Warhammer.

    RIFT just does not capture the feel or the "essence" of a warrior to me. I tried one for a while, then switched over to a Riftstalker, and I've been happy as a riftstalker tank ever since.

    But, I'll be the first to admit - that's mostly because I enjoy tanking, and I would dearly love it if the Warrior archetype souls could do something to emulate that.


    If I could offer a suggestion, I think the first thing I would recommend to Trion is to decide which soul you want as a primary tank soul, and go from there. Part of the problem I see is it's too vague across the warrior soul options, with the Void Knight adding a bit of anti-caster tanking, and this one adding a bit of that, and this one adding a bit of flair for something else. ...

    You guys should play spin-the-wheel or something, and whichever soul it lands on, make that one the central tanking soul and then stick with it, with the other options available to add some flair or fill a niche, but have at least one TANK soul in your TANK archetype ... not a hodge-podge of "tankish" souls with none of them truly filling that spot.

    With the Justicar and Riftstalker - folks have 1 choice, and they make it, but also, from a development standpoint, there's one soul that's intended for tanking, so the abilities are conveniently there in the tree to make a character with that option effective.

    Whichever soul you choose to make a tank, then make it a REAL - viable tank.

    I think a plate-armored tank-specced tank in RIFT could stand for a Tier 1 branch ability of 3/6/9/12/15% damage absorb right out the gate, this would be over and above anything already in place, and wouldn't matter what sort of damage it was. Then within the tree have other abilities for parry/block enhancement. And frankly I would like to see parry/block means the warrior takes no damage from that attack. If you parry a sword strike, then it doesn't hit you. Changing Block/Parry to do no damage on a successful mitigation roll, and increasing warrior's absorb via a tank soul branch option would go a LONG way towards tuning them and making them feel more like a decent tank. Then leave it so players can choose to increase their block/parry via branch selections as desired.

    I would also like to see within the tank spec an ability to set a guard or intercept on another party member. Guard would be the warrior diverts all agro (threat) from a guarded player to himself, and intercept would be the warrior can take attacks meant for the player being intercepted -- provided the warrior has a shield and the player is within 2m of the warrior.

    Overall, a high-end warrior tank should be HIGHLY surviveable - at the cost of DPS, sure, but highly surviveable to feel like a tank.

    -----

    Personally, I would still like to see paladins get a root ability for a single target heal that's not on a long cool-down timer. They can raise the dead at will, but they can't reliably heal a couple paper-cuts. A 2s castable, single-target heal that does about 65% of an equal range cleric heal would be good. Or even an instant-cast single-target heal over time. As it stands now, the cooldowns on paladin heals make them essentially novelties (with the exception of saving them for specific boss-fights or "oh *(&@" moments I guess).

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3

    Warrior issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Gersh_Trion View Post
    So for this particular line of feedback comparing the Riftstalker isn't relevant. We know Riftstalkers have some issues and we're taking measures to improve that disparity.

    That being said this is about WARRIOR tanks and the builds you are using and the encounters you are having difficulty with. In general we have ran every encounter using warrior tank builds and compelted them successfully. We've even done it copying some of the Alpha players and using them in our test runs as well to make sure we don't have an unfair advantage.

    That being said there are ALOT of combinations of builds out there, and alot of diffrent encounters, and many of you have tried many diffrent things. This is the type of targeted feedback we need as we continue to tune the Warrior tanks, not blanket complaints with no data we can test against.

    So please, help us improve RIFT through drilling down to details and specifics so we can shore up our loose ends.

    -Adam
    being able to defeat a encounter with any random build does not mean there is not something massively wrong with warrior tanking. other classes I.E. cleric / rogue use 1 soul to tank better than warriors using 3 souls.
    what needs to be done is make it so each warrior tanking soul can tank stand alone as good as other classes tanking souls then so if we combine all 3 tanking souls we will have a great tank we do not need to be the top DPs just give us the ability to mitigate damage (all forms) and generate massive threat i could really care less if i do 100 DPS but give me the tools to be the best tank because i am using 3 full tanking souls and all my points spent to tank not were a rogue or cleric all they have to do is spend 18 pt and bam instant tank that is = or better than a warrior with 61pt spent

    Gorofex 50 warrior
    Bloodpact

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    66
    Weaponshield to add more tanking flavors....

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    604
    Quote Originally Posted by dravid View Post
    Weaponshield to add more tanking flavors....
    You go die sir
    Trinity -Greybriar Defiant
    -Conqueror-
    Greenscale's Blight :: River of Souls :: Hammerknell Fortress
    Infernal Dawn: 8/8


  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by Raive View Post
    You go die sir
    Dying is easy enough. But that would invalidate the purpose of this thread. :P

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3
    I have 2 tanking specs.
    (Don't have the exact details of each since I'm not at my gaming pc atm)

    1) Paladin/Reaver/Void Knight
    2) Paladin/Reaver/Warlord

    Issues I have seen with those specs: Lack of mitigation of damage, plain and simple, when I can't get the mitigation numbers as a full plate tank that a rogue could get as a leather user there's something really wrong (before I get jumped on here I have no idea what the 1-18-11 patch did to rogue tanks, I don't play a end-game rogue and didn't get a chance to talk to one last night to see what is different).

    Now to echo what else has been said on this thread.

    To drill it down further, as a tank in other games we have had resistances to spells based on our armor rating, lets face it if a casters throwing a fireball at you the first thing you are going to do is duck behind your shield, not just take the hit the face.

    Right now we have 0 mitigation to elemental damage types, that needs to change, either through the changing of armor to where it actually means something against all types of damage or an ability in multiple souls that gives us some mitigation.

    That right there will be the biggest change that could be made to warriors to allow us to tank the encounters at the higher levels. While I believe that most encounters can be done with warrior tanks currently, the amount of healing and the luck involved (hoping you don't get nailed by 2 large elemental-based hits in a row) is not what this game is about. Luck should not play a part in being a good tank, skill should.

  15. #15
    Tank Build:

    32 Paladin, 24 Reaver, 10 Warlord

    Paladin:
    5/5 Stalwart Shield - +10% Block
    5/5 Defender +10 Armor
    5/5 Enduring Stamina +15% Endurance
    5/5 Small Arms Specialization +10% 1h dmg
    1/1 Shield of the Hero +5% Block +10% to hit
    3/3 Hardened Will - reduces spell dmg
    2/2 Agressive Guardian - +30% threat generation
    1/1 Light's Hammer - 3 sec stun
    3/3 Balance of Power - Blocked Attacks return 160% weap dmg back to attacker
    2/2 Tip the Balance - Balance of Power heals you for 100% of dmg done.

    Reaver:
    5/5 Strong Constitution +15% Endurance
    5/5 Entropic Embrace - +5% Dath dmg / application up to 5 apps
    5/5 Imbued Armor - Reduces dmg intake by 5%
    1/1 Plague Bringer - Makes DOT's into AOE
    1/1 Soul Feast - makes dots into 50% hots
    1/1 Sinister Bindings - Threat increase on Active Binding
    3/3 Crest master - Reduces Spell dmg by 9%
    1/1 Soul Devour - Makes increase heal of SOul Feast to 100%
    2/5 Planner Attunement - Increase dmg of basically dots by 6%

    Warlord:
    5/5 Powerful Countenance +10 Armor
    5/5 Intimidation 5% dmg reduction

    -------------------------------
    My Reasoning why no points spent elsewhere:
    Paladin:
    Steely Resolve - No real need for CC reduction
    Martial Shield - no real need to increase attk points threat is fine w/o
    Vengeful Wrath - incease dmg to Realiation Disarming Counterblow and Pal Reprisal not important enough to consider
    Paladin Devotion - No need to break CC as of yet
    Gracefull Underpressure - No need as of yet to increase to hit
    Karmic Resolution - Heal Pali for 15 -30% dmg dealt from DCB and Ret .. the heal isn't worth the points spent.
    Reverent Protection - Useless Ability as stands Please See Post #5 in this thread http://ch1.goodtimes.trionworlds.com...ead.php?t=2516 for my comments
    Improved Reverent Protection 4-8 sec duration increase is not worth a point when the ability itself is mechanically flawed vs dmg taken.
    Shield of Chosen - The minuscule plus Armor is not really warranted as AC does nothing against non-physical dmg.
    Paladins Reprisal - An actually good ability for a trash clearing build, but not a very good ability otherwise. Not worth the point.

    Reaver:
    Eathral Bond: Power Cost reduc of abilities - threat isn't a matter so pool isn't a facter in order to spam to gain threat.
    Power In the Blood - A possible nice to have, but points better spent elsewhere.
    Shadow of Dread - No nead for fear. Might be a good off tank ability if it petrified a mob in terror rooting it in place, vs running around.
    Tempered Will - No real need to break free of CC yet.
    Grisley Works - 3-9 % health gain upon kill is good for a trash clearing build but other wise points better spent elsewhere.
    Mastery of the Abyss 1-5 targets heals war for dmg done.. again another trash clear ability.
    Wasting Away - str reduction debuff not worth the points at the tier it is at and with out debuffing something else
    Cripling Infestation 5-15 less dmg ?? what type of dmg might be usefull
    Improved Mastery of the Abyss no need for the improved if there is not a need for the first one.
    Enraged Essence - maybe needed for a utility build, but with the nerf taking it down to 5% in the last patch and the fact it will no longer stack with Beast Masters Enraged Companion not really worth the point spent.
    Creaping Death - to far up the latter to get points better spent elsewhere no real need when have healers.

    Warlord:
    10 dumped in Warlord for the dmg reduction and to get the Sergeant's Command ability which is a must for mob control.

    Over all mechanic of Warrior damage mitigation is slightly flawed overall.

    AC only mitigates physical damage
    Parry only parries physical damage
    Dodge only dodges physical damage
    Block only blocks a portion of physical damage
    Spell damage reduction is only gained through points spent into a soul tree
    There is NO elemental damage mitigation at all.

    Possible Solutions to the WAR DMG INTAKE problem.

    1. Armor Class to include sub spell/elemtal dmg mitigation value.

    2. Block Chance to deflect or reduce all or a portion of portion of spell/elemental damage.

    3. Endurance to increase resists as well as health.

    4. Re-look non-physical damage reduction across warrior souls and adjust to include elemental damage reduction, making the current available in earlier tiers, increasing their value where they are at in their current tiers, or reallocate non-phys reduction abilities so they are not spread to far to thin.

    5. Or combination of the above.

  16. #16
    DPS Build:

    32 Beastmaster, 20 Paragon, 14 Champion

    Beastmaster:
    5/5 Natural Instincts
    5/5 Survival of the Fittest
    5/5 Primal Fury
    5/5 Iron Bonds
    1/1 Shared Bonds
    1/1 Summon Greater Primal Companion
    3/3 Pack Mentality
    1/1 Spoils of the Hunt

    Paragon:
    5/5 Combat Precision
    5/5 Teaching of the 5 Rings
    3/3 Double Jeopardy
    5/5 Weapon Master
    1/1 Path of the Tempest
    1/1 Wrist Strike

    Champion:
    5/5 Take No Prisoners
    5/5 Titan's Strenght
    3/3 Deadly Strikes
    1/1 Blitz

    The biggest concern of mine is the lack luster mechanics of the actual pet in a BM heavy build. The following are my concerns and observations.

    Key thing here is you Must Keep Pet Alive to reap it's benifits.

    1.. Pet has no survivability. With only 3K HP, 2K AC, No resists, No Spell Mit, No Elemental Mit, the pet is either 1 shoted or 2 shoted vs End Game Content that Has AOE of any kind be it Frontal Cone or 360.

    Suggest Pet receive innate Resists, Spell Mit, Elemental Mit and have its HP AC scale similarly with the WAR. Or have options to gear your pet in some way to increase these needed aspects of game play.

    2. Pet has no reasonable AI. Pet does not auto position to the rear of the mob to avoid such things as cleave. Pet does not adjust position to move out of ground target AOE's when it is standing in it and taking damage.

    Suggest giving the pet some sort of smart AI where if it does not have agro, it auto pesitions to the back side of the mob. Also after recieving x number of damage from standing in a ground target AOE it will move out of it.

    3. In the event the pet does die, we need an instant summon ability to get it up and back into combat. 8 seconds is a long time to stand out of combat to summon a companion. The instant summon can be on a longer reuse for some penalty for allowing the pet to die twice with in a given period of time. 3-5 min would not be unreasonable.

    5. Pet ability rotation is not condusive of maximizing its dps. Suggest smart AI on abilities as well so the pet knows to use Pounce and Bite when on a single target and Bite and Swipe when facing multiple targets. A wider range of abilities would welcomed as well.

    6. Desire an Assist Now button be added. So you can instantly make you pet assist you and get it off of what ever else it decided to attack. This way I can instantly put it on my current taget with out having to go through puting it on passive then back on attack or defensive to get it on the target I want. Do not make it so it always assists. Some times it is good to leave it on a target while you move on to another.

    As it stands now with the pets inability to survive for any period of time in dungeon, rifts, raids, it becomes nothing more than another guild banner sitting idle in corner away from combat.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dravid View Post
    Weaponshield to add more tanking flavors....
    Do not see this being a problem since the Vidicator soul has Block if you are dual wielding. But it is to far up the tree and in the vindicator soul to be of any use to a tank build.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    213
    The prior comment from Xaices reflects part of the main issue I see ... why is a "weaponshield" in vindicator too far up the tree ...(and I'm not home, so I can't look at specifics).

    There needs to be one central tank soul to invest in for the core tank abilities. Extra mitigation, elemental resists, enhanced defenses in general to make a solid tank, then the other souls adjusted around it for specific nuances ... such as 2 weapon tanking, sword/board, two handed, etc, and those souls provide the specific abilities for weapon preferences.

    I don't have a problem allowing a weapon-based block for dual wielders if they spec for it in a branch ability. But it should be innate for sword/shield. However, both souls should have a branch choice to improve block rates, and a block should mean 100% mitigation, same as parry with 2h'rs.

    One central primary tanking soul, and then adjust the others around it for player creativity in HOW they want to play/tank would greatly simplify the current problem with lots of vagueness and overlap in warrior tank design and function.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    66
    I pretty much didn't try the Vindicator soul since I am not really into PvP (even though that may have to change in the future). I do remember however before (i.e. about two weeks ago), you didn't get any block % unless you had a shield equipped. But now it looks like you are getting block % bonus as long as you invest in some form of block ability (like Stalwart Shield).

    But ofcourse block being vital stat , we really need more than 10% bock to be effective if there are options for other non-shield flavors.

    But again I might be just suggesting this because of my personal bias towards the Paragon soul.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    380
    I've got several +block modifiers on some jewelry and I've seen my rogue block a few times in dungeons.

    With the block returns being so great I actually had about 3-4% block on my Rogue at one point. Block seems to work with any type of weapon set you're using.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts